@database "reald_archive.guide" Archived from Real3d Mailing list Compiled by Brendan Langoulant @master "real3d_archive1.guide" @node Main "real3d_archive1.guide" Internet Real3D Mailing List Archive # 1 Compiled by Brendan Langoulant (list admin) This is not just an extract, but a full reproduction of all mail received by the list. (To squash any ideas that the list is moderated ;) @{" Joining the list " link joining } @{" List by Subjects " link listbysubject } @{" Info on Real3d V2 " link r3d2b } If anyone wants to organise this more effectively.. Feel free, but Please notify me (Brendan) before releasing it. @endnode @node joining To join the list you must have an @{"internet" link internet} emailing address. Post a message to : listserv@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: line makes no difference with a body message in the format subscribe eg. subscribe real3d Brendan Langoulant ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Put your name here If you have problems, mail me at brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node listbysubject @{" real3d Mailing list Address " link item000} @{" Real3d " link item001} @{" Real3D human head/body objects Wanted " link item002} @{" Real3D Version 2 " link item003} @{" Upgrade price from 1.41 (Pro-Turbo) " link item004} @{" Hi " link item005} @{" Imagine -> Real 3D " link item006} @{" Imagine -> Real 3D " link item007} @{" Re: Imagine -> Real 3D (fwd) " link item008} @{" forwarded mail " link item009} @{" Imagine -> Real 3D (fwd) " link item010} @{" rendering in Real3D 2.0 " link item011} @{" Settings " link item012} @{" Real3D list Forced Reply " link item013} @{" test of reply to list " link item014} @{" Re: test of reply to list " link item015} @{" Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 " link item016} @{" Activa email address (fwd) " link item017} @{" Questions about Real3D 2.0 " link item018} @{" Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 (fwd) " link item019} @{" Activa email address (fwd) " link item020} @{" Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 " link item021} @{" Lighting Scenes " link item022} @{" Human Forms? " link item023} @{" Re: Lighting Scenes " link item024} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item025} @{" Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 " link item026} @{" Re: Lighting Scenes " link item027} @{" Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 (fwd) " link item028} @{" Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 (fwd) " link item029} @{" Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 " link item030} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item031} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item032} @{" Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 " link item033} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item034} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item035} @{" Who I am and what I do?? " link item036} @{" Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item037} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal " link item038} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal " link item039} @{" Tutorials " link item040} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item041} @{" Re: Who I am and what I do?? " link item042} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item043} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item044} @{" Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item045} @{" Uk Real3d v 2.xx Shipping! " link item046} @{" Re: Tutorials " link item047} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item048} @{" Re: Who I am and wha " link item049} @{" Re: Tutorials " link item050} @{" Re: Tutorials " link item051} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item052} @{" Retina support " link item053} @{" Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 " link item054} @{" Real 3D object sites " link item055} @{" Re: Tutorials " link item056} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item057} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item058} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item059} @{" ok... " link item060} @{" Stack size for Real3D *-John.S-* " link item061} @{" Re: ok... " link item062} @{" Bugs in 2.30 " link item063} @{" Re: ok... " link item064} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item065} @{" Re: ok... " link item066} @{" ok... " link item067} @{" Re: ok... " link item068} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item069} @{" Re: ok... " link item070} @{" R3d-2.0 questions " link item071} @{" Re: ok... " link item072} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item073} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item074} @{" Re: ok... " link item075} @{" Re: ok... " link item076} @{" Re: Stack size for Real3D *-John.S-* " link item077} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item078} @{" Re: ok... " link item079} @{" Re: ok... " link item080} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item081} @{" Re: ok... " link item082} @{" version " link item083} @{" Re: ok... " link item084} @{" R3d-2.0 questions " link item085} @{" Retina support " link item086} @{" Re: ok... " link item087} @{" Re: ok... " link item088} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item089} @{" Re: Retina support " link item090} @{" Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh " link item091} @{" Re: ok... " link item092} @{" Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item093} @{" R3D has arrived " link item094} @{" Re: version " link item095} @{" Updates to Real3D V.2 " link item096} @{" Re: ok... " link item097} @{" Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh " link item098} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item099} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item100} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item101} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item102} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item103} @{" Re: ok... " link item104} @{" Re: version " link item105} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item106} @{" Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) " link item107} @{" Some impressions on Real3D 2.0 & Re: Tutorials " link item108} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item109} @{" Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh " link item110} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item111} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item112} @{" Some impressions on " link item113} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item114} @{" Re: Some impressions on Real3D 2.0 & Re: Tutorials " link item115} @{" Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh " link item116} @{" R3d2 & interlace rendering " link item117} @{" 2 dimensional primatives problem " link item118} @{" R3D2 & 2.04 " link item119} @{" Another Bug? " link item120} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item121} @{" Speed of rendering " link item122} @{" Re: version " link item123} @{" Chemistry with RPL ? " link item124} @{" Re: Chemistry with RPL ? " link item125} @{" Real 3D upgrades " link item126} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item127} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item128} @{" Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: " link item129} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item130} @{" Re: R3D2 & 2.04 " link item131} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item132} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item133} @{" 3DO (was Re: Chemistry with RPL ?) " link item134} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item135} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item136} @{" Rendering Engine " link item137} @{" Re: 3DO (was Re: Chemistry with RPL ?) " link item138} @{" Re: Rendering Engine " link item139} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item140} @{" Re: R3D2 & 2.04 " link item141} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item142} @{" Re: Rendering Engine " link item143} @{" Re: Rendering Engine " link item144} @{" R3D2 & screens " link item145} @{" NTSC aspect ratio " link item146} @{" Re: NTSC aspect ratio " link item147} @{" R3Dv2 - a critique " link item148} @{" Re: R3Dv2 - a critique " link item149} @{" Re: ok... " link item150} @{" YET another bug? " link item151} @{" Re: ok... " link item152} @{" Re: Activa email address (fwd) " link item153} @{" Aspect Ratio " link item154} @{" More questios on Real3D " link item155} @{" Re: Aspect Ratio " link item156} @{" UNDO " link item157} @{" Re: UNDO " link item158} @{" Re: UNDO " link item159} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item160} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item161} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item162} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item163} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item164} @{" Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) " link item165} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item166} @{" Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) " link item167} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item168} @{" Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) " link item169} @{" Toaster/Component Video " link item170} @{" Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) " link item171} @{" Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) " link item172} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item173} @{" Re: Speed of rendering " link item174} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item175} @{" Re: Some impressions on " link item176} @{" Re: PAL vs NTSC " link item177} @{" Re: EGS LIBRARY " link item178} @{" Re: Some impressions on " link item179} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item180} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item181} @{" Re: Speed of rendering " link item182} @{" Environments in Real3D 2.33 " link item183} @{" Re: Speed of rendering " link item184} @{" Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others " link item185} @{" Help. " link item186} @{" Re: Help. " link item187} @{" my email is wrong! " link item188} @{" Re: Environments in Real3D 2.33 " link item189} @{" Re: Help. " link item190} @{" Re: Help. " link item191} @{" Re: Help. " link item192} @{" Re: Real 3D upgrades " link item193} @{" Re: All these replies " link item194} @{" Help2 " link item195} @{" Re: Help2 " link item196} @{" Re: Help2 " link item197} @{" Re: All these replies " link item198} @{" Re: Help2 " link item199} @{" Re: All these replies " link item200} @{" SKSH <> R3D2 problem " link item201} @{" Subscribe, please? " link item202} @{" Re: ok... " link item203} @{" Re: RE: Help2 " link item204} @{" Re: Help2 " link item205} @{" Re: Help2 " link item206} @{" Re: Help2 " link item207} @{" Re: Help. " link item208} @{" Re: Help. " link item209} @{" Re: Help. " link item210} @{" R3D " link item211} @{" Re: Help2 " link item212} @{" Re: Help2 " link item213} @{" Re: Help2 " link item214} @{" R3D " link item215} @{" Previous Posts " link item216} @{" Re: ok... " link item217} @{" Re: Help2 " link item218} @{" Real/Imagine ray trace test " link item219} @{" Re: ok... " link item220} @{" Re: Real/Imagine ray trace test " link item221} @{" Re: Help2 " link item222} @{" Re: Help2 " link item223} @{" Re: All these replies " link item224} @{" Re: Help2 " link item225} @{" Re: Help2 " link item226} @{" Re: All these replies " link item227} @{" Re: UNDO " link item228} @{" Misc. thoughts " link item229} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item230} @{" Re: R3D " link item231} @{" Please remove me from this list ! " link item232} @{" Re: Help2 " link item233} @{" How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? " link item234} @{" non FPU version of R3D2 " link item235} @{" Font Converter " link item236} @{" Motion Blur " link item237} @{" Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? " link item238} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item239} @{" Re: Font Converter " link item240} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item241} @{" Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? " link item242} @{" Re: R3D " link item243} @{" Re: Motion Blur " link item244} @{" Unsubscribing " link item245} @{" Please Ignote " link item246} @{" Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? " link item247} @{" Dongle disables other software " link item248} @{" Tutorials " link item249} @{" Re: R3D " link item250} @{" Re: R3D " link item251} @{" complaints " link item252} @{" Reviews " link item253} @{" Re: Help2 " link item254} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item255} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item256} @{" C_TOROID mystery " link item257} @{" AmigaGuide with Real2 " link item258} @{" Re: All these replies " link item259} @{" Re: Help2 " link item260} @{" Re: Help2 " link item261} @{" Re: SKSH <> R3D2 problem " link item262} @{" Re: ok... " link item263} @{" R3d-2.0 updates, how to get? " link item264} @{" Re: Help2 " link item265} @{" Motion Blue " link item266} @{" Object sizing " link item267} @{" Trees " link item268} @{" Re: R3D " link item269} @{" Is this list censored " link item270} @{" Re: R3D " link item271} @{" bug? " link item272} @{" Re: Indiana*%$#$!!! " link item273} @{" Hints from Andy " link item274} @{" Question from Andy " link item275} @{" Re: R3D " link item276} @{" Re: R3D " link item277} @{" dctv " link item278} @{" Re: Trees " link item279} @{" Lens flare " link item280} @{" bug? " link item281} @{" Missing Mail " link item282} @{" UNSUBSCRIBE " link item283} @{" Re: Lens flare " link item284} @{" Re: Lens flare " link item285} @{" Re: Prism " link item286} @{" hot keys " link item287} @{" Missing Mail " link item288} @{" Re: bug? " link item289} @{" HAM8 anim player .. " link item290} @{" Re: Missing Mail " link item291} @{" Delays to Requests... " link item292} @{" Re: Lens flare " link item293} @{" Re: Lens flare " link item294} @{" Driver Retina " link item295} @{" RE: hot keys " link item296} @{" Re: hot keys " link item297} @{" Re: I WANT SOFT SHADOWS! " link item298} @{" Re: Question from Andy " link item299} @{" Re: I WANT SOFT SHADOWS! " link item300} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item301} @{" SUBSCRIBE " link item302} @{" How do I get R3Dv2 to do this? " link item303} @{" HAM8 anim player .. " link item304} @{" Re: UNSUBSCRIBE " link item305} @{" Materials in R3D2 " link item306} @{" Mirrored fonts " link item307} @{" Read 3D v2 on an A3000 " link item308} @{" Re: Real 3D object sites " link item309} @{" Speed of optimised Real40 " link item310} @{" Re: Materials in R3D2 " link item311} @{" Re: Read 3D v2 on an A3000 " link item312} @{" Re: Real 3D object sites " link item313} @{" Re: Speed of optimised Real40 " link item314} @{" Re: Question from Andy " link item315} @{" Re: Mirrored fonts " link item316} @{" Read 3D v2 on an A30 " link item317} @{" Re: C_TOROID mystery " link item318} @{" Re: Real 3D object sites (fwd) " link item319} @{" Re: Reviews " link item320} @{" Re: Missing Mail " link item321} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item322} @{" Re: R3D " link item323} @{" Re: complaints " link item324} @{" maillist readme and admin address " link item325} @{" Re: complaints " link item326} @{" Re: SUBSCRIBE " link item327} @{" Please UNSUBSCRIBE me! " link item328} @{" Re: maillist readme and admin address " link item329} @{" Re: complaints " link item330} @{" Re: complaints " link item331} @{" Version history " link item332} @{" Re: Error Condition Re: Re: Please UNSUBSCRIBE me! " link item333} @{" IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) " link item334} @{" Re: I WANT SOFT SHADOWS! " link item335} @{" Re: Question from Andy " link item336} @{" Re: Mirrored fonts " link item337} @{" Virtuell mem " link item338} @{" Real Problems " link item339} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item340} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item341} @{" Polygon Mesh Problem " link item342} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item343} @{" RE: Speed of optimised Real40 " link item344} @{" Re: Virtuell mem " link item345} @{" Re: Virtuell mem " link item346} @{" Re: Help2 " link item347} @{" Re: Misc. thoughts " link item348} @{" Suggestions " link item349} @{" Re: Motion Blue " link item350} @{" RE: Speed of optimised Real40 " link item351} @{" Re: non FPU version of R3D2 " link item352} @{" Modem Setting for Activa's support BBS " link item353} @{" Optimising Real40? " link item354} @{" Seagate 3600A for DPS PAR, mailing list deal. " link item355} @{" version 2.34 " link item356} @{" Suggestions " link item357} @{" Re: Suggestions " link item358} @{" Re: version 2.34 " link item359} @{" Re: version 2.34 " link item360} @{" Real Wishlist " link item361} @{" Re: version 2.34 " link item362} @{" RE: Speed of optimised Real40 " link item363} @{" Re: version 2.34 " link item364} @{" Re: Missing Mail " link item365} @{" Re: maillist readme and admin address " link item366} @{" dctv & anims " link item367} @{" Question?? " link item368} @{" REMOVE " link item369} @{" Re: Materials in R3D2 " link item370} @{" Re: Question?? " link item371} @{" Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item372} @{" Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item373} @{" Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item374} @{" Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item375} @{" Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item376} @{" Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions " link item377} @{" Re: Motion Blues " link item378} @{" subscribe " link item379} @{" remove " link item380} @{" remove " link item381} @{" external screens " link item382} @{" Re: complaints " link item383} @{" Re: complaints " link item384} @{" Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) " link item385} @{" Read3D FTP site?? " link item386} @{" Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) " link item387} @{" Re: complaints " link item388} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item389} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item390} @{" Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) " link item391} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item392} @{" Re: Real Wishlist " link item393} @{" Re: complaints " link item394} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item395} @{" Re: Real Wishlist " link item396} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item397} @{" Re: complaints " link item398} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item399} @{" Re: Read3D FTP site?? " link item400} @{" UPgrading to R3D2 by visa in UK? " link item401} @{" Re: Real Wishlist " link item402} @endnode @node item000 From brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Sat Apr 17 05:10:59 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: real3d Mailing list Address Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 21:10:59 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, It has returned... ( I hope with no bugs ) Sorry for the problems. To mail to it send mail to real3d@gu.uwa.edu.au if you have any problems mail me on brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Not much time..... @{" REAL3D V2 " link r3d2b } !!!!!! Is that enough to spark conversation? -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item001 From evan@gu.uwa.edu.au Fri Apr 16 22:09:36 1993 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 22:09:36 +0800 From: Evan Scott Subject: Real3D Archive Sites Are there any @{" object archive sites " link r3d2o } or wombles? @endnode @node item002 From G.Coulter@daresbury.ac.uk Fri Apr 16 22:37:46 1993 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 15:26:55 BST From: "G.Coulter" Subject: Real3D human head/body objects Wanted Hi Everyone I am considering building a human from, much the same as cycleman for use in a T2 type rendering using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, does anyone out there have, such an object to save me some time. PS I am also looking for a human type face, quite detailed of possible. Thanks -Gary- G.Coulter@daresbury.AC.UK @endnode @node item003 From brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Apr 20 02:13:51 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Real3D Version 2 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:13:51 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, Who out there has @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } Version 2 ? If that is you, I would be interested to see what your initial thoughts on the product are... What problems have you come up against ? What doesnt it do ? This may sound a little negative, but I have used the Betatest version and I couldnt find much wrong, and I wouldnt dare say them now the release version is out there... -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item004 From brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Apr 20 02:50:02 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Upgrade price from 1.41 (Pro-Turbo) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:50:02 +0800 (WST) Forwarded message: > From POSTMASTER@dlgm.dl.ac.uk Mon Apr 19 18:47:13 1993 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Notice the address Gary. > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:47:14 BST > From: "G.Coulter" > To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au > Subject: Upgrade price from 1.41 (Pro-Turbo) > > -*real3d*- > > Hi Everyone ... > > Does anyone out there have any idea how much its going > to cost to upgrade from @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.41 (Pro-Turbo) to R3D2 > here in the UK? > > -Gary- > > @endnode @node item005 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Thu May 6 00:49:30 1993 Date: Wed, 5 May 93 18:44:18 CET From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) Subject: Hi I just send out my subscribtion. I am having @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2. I am still learning with the tutorials. hope to see from you.bye Grettings Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item006 From ddt@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri May 7 15:25:01 1993 Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 15:25:01 +0800 From: David Bennett Apparently-To: real3d Hello ( Im not english or speling good ), How you get mesh to morph between two objects formed at different times. Im only using wersion 1.4. David [DDT] Pink fish forever. @endnode @node item007 From leon@stack.urc.tue.nl Fri May 7 12:06:00 1993 From: leon@stack.urc.tue.nl (Leon Woestenberg) Subject: Imagine -> Real 3D Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 10:06:00 +0200 (MET DST) Hi Really nice people, Nope, I'm not having problems converting @{"Imagine" link imagine} objects to @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }.... I'm just considering to become a @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } user (after those nice feature list showed up on the nets) after having worked with @{"Imagine" link imagine} for the last years. Are there many people around that can afford the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 package, as it's quite expensive. I'm considering to buy the package along with some other friends (better one bought package then a handfull of copies). Are there already people around with 2.0 at their Amiga? If so, how does this new version 'feel' and trace? Is there still a terminating dongle, so that you cannot use the printer, and have to lug all the time? -- 1.> Signature on request only... Leon Woestenberg (leon@stack.urc.tue.nl) -- @endnode @node item008 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Sat May 8 00:42:02 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Imagine -> Real 3D (fwd) Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 16:42:02 +0800 (WST) Forwarded message: > > *-real3d-* > > ----- Begin Included Message ----- > > Hi Really nice people, Leon Woestenberg (leon@stack.urc.tue.nl) > > > > Are there already people around with 2.0 at their Amiga? If so, how does > this new version 'feel' and trace? Is there still a terminating dongle, so > that you cannot use the printer, and have to lug all the time? > > ----- End Included Message ----- > > I think that I heard somewhere that Active were also going to produce > a joystick port "Dongle" in addition or instead of the parallel port > "Dongle" at a later date. > > -Gary- > > PS Are you on here John? - @endnode @node item009 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 18:56:30 1993 Date: Fri, 7 May 93 18:56:30 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: forwarded mail On May 7, David Bennett wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hello ( Im not english or speling good ), How you get mesh to morph between two objects formed at different times. Im only using wersion 1.4. David [DDT] Pink fish forever. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] Both the objects MUST have to have the same number of points if they are meshes. Then you.. 1. Go to the end frame with the second object 2. Delete the first object 3. Rename the second object with the same name as the first. 4. Expose it 5. Chose MORPH from the @{"animation" link r3d2a} menu and give it the start/end frames. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item010 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 19:01:50 1993 Date: Fri, 7 May 93 19:01:50 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Imagine -> Real 3D (fwd) On May 7, Leon Woestenberg wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Are there already people around with 2.0 at their Amiga? If so, how does this new version 'feel' and trace? Is there still a terminating dongle, so that you cannot use the printer, and have to lug all the time? [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] My upgrade version of v2 is in the post from Holland, but I did play with it at a recent show here, and it is REALLY impressive, as others have others have said (people who already have the package). There is so much to say about it, that those who have used it could probably tell you more, but it seems very slick and clever, and totally user definable from the small play I had with it - it traces pretty wonderfully from what I can tell. There is no parallel dongle, and the guy from Activa demonstrating it said that there never will be - it is a joystick dongle (with a passthrough I believe) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item011 From collett@agora.rain.com Wed May 8 17:20:00 1993 Date: Sun, 9 May 93 00:20 PDT From: collett@agora.rain.com (Ray Collett) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: rendering in Real3D 2.0 I had a chance to dable with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s v2.0 yesterday. I only had about 45 mins to explore it. I'm really excited about the possibilities that this impressive software package has to offer! I am a long time @{"Imagine" link imagine} user who's fed up with the mediocre quality of render that @{"Imagine" link imagine} has produced for me. This is not a flame towards @{"Imagine" link imagine}, by far, I like the Price/preformance capabilities. Anyways, being quality oriented, I decided to test @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s image quality. My first expirament was to make a simple ball and render it. Sounds easy... I get an out of memory error. Hmm... 18megs to render a simple ball? Sounds weird. I then play with all kinds of settings, lighting, textures, brush maping, camera angles. Nothing! I finaly get it to render the background, but no object! With time running out, I decide to try one of the toutorial projects. No luck. No objects, just background. My friend unfortunaly left the manual at home, so I could'ent just look up the answer. Anyone have any ideas as to why I could'ent get any of the Objects to render? TI'm hoping to get Read2D v2.0 included in my next budget, the example renders looked really neat! Thanks, OooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooO O Ray Collett collett@agora.rain.com Party on! O OooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooO @endnode @node item012 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Mon May 10 06:50:37 1993 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 00:48:43 CET From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) Subject: Settings Hi all, anyone know if there is a way at the version 2.30 to store your external screen Settings at a envirement,or should I try to make a macro ,or is there a way of using RPL ??? greetings Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item013 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon May 10 19:27:00 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Real3D list Forced Reply Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 11:27:00 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, I am going to change the Reply to: field so that you automatically reply to the list... At present it replys to the person that sent the mail... So, if you object to this violently, please tell me now.. -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item014 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon May 10 23:17:39 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: test of reply to list Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 15:17:39 +0800 (WST) ** PLEASE IGNORE ** Just a test.... The @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } list will now hopefully automatically respond to the list as opposed to the individual. -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item015 From G.Coulter@daresbury.ac.uk Mon May 10 15:35:52 1993 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 08:28:17 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: test of reply to list *-real3d-* ** PLEASE IGNORE ** TEST @endnode @node item016 From collett@agora.rain.com Mon May 10 08:21:00 1993 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 15:21 PDT From: collett@agora.rain.com (Ray Collett) To: real3d@.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 Errors-To: nobody@email.sp.paramax.com On May 10 activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) wrote: >Hi Ray (Ray Collett), in on May 9 you wrot > > > Anyways, being quality oriented, I decided to test @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s image qualit > > My first expirament was to make a simple ball and render it. Sounds eas > > I get an out of memory error. Hmm... 18megs to render a simple ball? > >This happens with the cracked versions floating around ... > I kinda suspected this, I'll have to talk him about this. > > Sounds w> > brush maping, camera angles. Nothing! I finaly get it to render the > > background, but no object! > >Same thing. I bet there was no dongle. > I did'ent happen to notice one, but then again, I really was'ent looking for one. > > My aly left the manual at home, so I could'ent just look > >My guess is he hasn't got one.. > > > up the answer. Anyone have any ideas as to why I could'ent get any of t > > Objects to render? TI'm hoping to get Read2D v2.0 included in my next > > budget, the example renders looked really neat! > > Thanks, > >Yes, get the original package, it'll work fine. > > Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlan > Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 > UUCP - activa@motship.hacktick.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 > > Once upon a time you could only @{"Imagine" link imagine}, now it's time to get REAL > I plan on getting @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.0. Like I said above, I'll have to talk to him about the source of his copy... Thanks for confirming my suspicion. @endnode @node item017 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 12:01:38 1993 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 12:01:38 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Activa email address (fwd) On May 10, Dino Fancellu wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Here it is:- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktick.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item018 From bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Mon May 10 13:18:40 1993 From: bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) Subject: Questions about Real3D 2.0 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 10 May 93 18:18:40 CDT In-Reply-To: ; from "Ray Collett" at May 11, 93 6:20 am Hi! I've just started into 3D modeling and @{"animation" link r3d2a} with Autodesk 3D Studio R2, and though this is a very capable package, there are some things that are hard to do with it and there are things that it just can't do. I would like, as funds permit, to aquire at least two more 3d modeling and animation packages, and I am leaning towards @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 and @{"Imagine" link imagine}. First of all, does the collision detection and inverse kinematics stuff really work? Has anyone tried bouncing balls down some steps? Are pouring liquids really possible? I've heard rumours of a PC port. Are they true? If not, I wouldn't mind getting an A4000, but it would be nice if I could run @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } on the same monster PC I use for 3D Studio. I am torn between getting a 486 motherboard for my spare PC so I can use it as a rendering station (3D Studio cannot be multitasked) or whether I should save the money so I can use it to help pay for an A4000. Also, I've heard rumours that there will be a version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 that uses the Vivid 24 rendering hardware. Can anyone substatiate these? If so, does anyone have any idea of what the Vivid 24 and the Vivid version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } will cost? BTW, the Amiga dealer I talked to here said a guy here in Huntsville has a Vivid board and he's seen it. Finally, how much does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 cost and who sells it? Bailey @endnode @node item019 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 00:08:27 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 00:08:27 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Re: rendering in @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 (fwd) On May 11, Ray Collett wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > Anyways, being quality oriented, I decided to test @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s image qualit > > My first expirament was to make a simple ball and render it. Sounds eas > > I get an out of memory error. Hmm... 18megs to render a simple ball? > >This happens with the cracked versions floating around ... > I kinda suspected this, I'll have to talk him about this. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] I'd agree with this - a hacked version was spread middle of last week, but from what I heard it won't render (HAH!) Think of all those pirates who downloaded and distributed 5 or 6 megs of useless hack... (heh!) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item020 From Tomasz.Piatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz Tue May 11 23:46:48 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 11:46:48 +1200 From: Tomasz Piatek To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au In-Reply-To: John Shiali's message of Tue, 11 May 1993 07:02:12 +0800 <9305101201.AA004yo@heights.demon.co.uk> Subject: Activa email address (fwd) Hi all! So can I just order a copy of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 direct from Activa or do I have to wait for it to come to New Zealand? If I can order it directly from Activa then does anybody know how much does it cost (product price + shipping costs)? All answers much appreciated. cheers, Tomek +------------------------------------------------------+ | /\ tm | | /--\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand | +------------------------------------------------------+ @endnode @node item021 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Tue May 11 03:58:48 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 01:58:48 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305102318.AA11273@casca.b11.ingr.com> from "Bailey Brown" at May 11, 93 07:17:51 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > First of all, does the collision detection and inverse kinematics > stuff really work? Has anyone tried bouncing balls down some steps? > Are pouring liquids really possible? Balls works. I've seen a bowling ball hit the whatever they're called in english. Dunno about liquids... > I've heard rumours of a PC port. Are they true? If not, I wouldn't Yes. Realsoft showed @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 beta running under Windows. It was slower on 486-DX2 at 66 MHz than Amiga 4000/040 still, though. They also mentioned a future Indigo release. > Also, I've heard rumours that there will be a version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 > that uses the Vivid 24 rendering hardware. Can anyone substatiate > these? If so, does anyone have any idea of what the Vivid 24 and Yes, that is also true, but I haven't got it confirmed. I have heard that from multiple sources who are very reliable. > Finally, how much does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 cost and who sells it? Creative Computers in USA sells it for 399 USD. /Peter @endnode @node item022 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon May 10 20:26:11 1993 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 13:27:34 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Lighting Scenes Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* Hi Everyone ... I wounder if someone out there can give me some pointers on lighting scenes using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.4. The scene I want to create is say a couple of mirrored balls floating over a checker floor and under a cloudy sky. What I want to be able to do is set a over all level of ambient light within the scene. I have tryed using two infinite planes for the floor and sky but its hard to light the planes for any distance using Reals lights. I have tryed using more than one light but still everything turns to darkness not far from the light source. Any help on how to set up an overall ambient light without over exposing objects near to the camera would be of great help. -Gary- Internet G.Coulter@Daresbury.AC.UK "Science & Engineering Research Council Daresbury Laboratory ... UK" @endnode @node item023 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue May 11 19:40:11 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Human Forms? Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 11:40:11 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, I have just been speaking to the distributor of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } here in Australia. Apparently there is a macro for creating a human form down to to the hair. This is in the release version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. Current version is 2.3 I think -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au P.S. Only a few more days before my @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } finally arrives... Teach me not to put an order in. @endnode @node item024 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue May 11 20:26:39 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Lighting Scenes To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 12:26:39 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305101227.AA06080@gserv1> from "G.Coulter" at May 11, 93 11:22:14 am > Hi Everyone ... > > I wounder if someone out there can give me some pointers > on lighting scenes using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.4. The scene I want to > create is say a couple of mirrored balls floating over a > checker floor and under a cloudy sky. What I want to be > able to do is set a over all level of ambient light > within the scene. I have tryed using two infinite planes > for the floor and sky but its hard to light the planes > for any distance using Reals lights. I have tryed using > more than one light but still everything turns to darkness > not far from the light source. Any help on how to set up > an overall ambient light without over exposing objects > near to the camera would be of great help. Well first of all you should use large rectangles because they are faster than infinite... ** sigh ** And you should make the sky material UNSHADED becuase you dont want your lighting to affect the sky. ( I presume ).. I as a general rule set the sky to SCENE too so that It doesnt matter if I zoom out a long way.. Set the Background colour to a subtle blue so that you actually have a sky line... Another way to make a sky like material is to map it onto a really large hollow sphere which has the Sky mapping... This will give you some skyline... As for the ground... The problem with UNSHADED is that there is no shadows on it... So if you want shadows you cant have UNSHADED... So you will just have tyo have lots and lots of lamps.. If this seems that I have just typed randomly without any real thought.. Your righht... So in the current style setting... Thats all folks... > > -Gary- Internet G.Coulter@Daresbury.AC.UK > "Science & Engineering Research Council > Daresbury Laboratory ... UK" -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item025 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue May 11 20:46:17 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 12:46:17 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <199305102346.AA23653@regent.comp.vuw.ac.nz> from "Tomasz Piatek" at May 11, 93 07:45:25 am > > > Hi all! > > So can I just order a copy of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 direct from Activa or do I have to wait > for it to come to New Zealand? If I can order it directly from Activa then > does anybody know how much does it cost (product price + shipping costs)? > All answers much appreciated. I dont know who has the distribution rights in New Zealand, but I think it might be Color Computer Systems... I will phone and ask them. Activa, as far as I know wont sell programs to individuals. > > cheers, > Tomek > > +------------------------------------------------------+ > | /\ tm | > | /--\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand | > +------------------------------------------------------+ > @endnode @node item026 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 00:35:04 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 00:35:04 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305102318.AA11273@casca.b11.ingr.com> (from Bailey Brown ) (at Tue, 11 May 1993 07:18:41 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 Hi Bailey (Bailey Brown), on May 11 you wrote: > First of all, does the collision detection and inverse kinematics > stuff really work? Has anyone tried bouncing balls down some steps? > Are pouring liquids really possible? Yes - I haven't done it, but I've seen it done and the results. > > I've heard rumours of a PC port. Are they true? If not, I wouldn't > mind getting an A4000, but it would be nice if I could run @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } on Yes, true - but the Windoze version will not have the trick userdefinable interface or the interprocess multitasking. > the same monster PC I use for 3D Studio. I am torn between getting > a 486 motherboard for my spare PC so I can use it as a rendering station > (3D Studio cannot be multitasked) or whether I should save the > money so I can use it to help pay for an A4000. Geat an A4000 - better than a PC anyday. > > Also, I've heard rumours that there will be a version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 > that uses the Vivid 24 rendering hardware. Can anyone substatiate Supposedly true - rumoured sources form Vivid and also @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } betatesters > these? If so, does anyone have any idea of what the Vivid 24 and > the Vivid version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } will cost? BTW, the Amiga dealer I > talked to here said a guy here in Huntsville has a Vivid board > and he's seen it. Dunno - Vivid is still in manufactureing, but the full versions is supposedly 12000 usd (with the full set of four 160mip graphics processors or something) > Finally, how much does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 cost and who sells it? Comes from Activa originally, based in Holland and Germany, but your distributer will vary around the world - prices are 400 USD in the States (I think) and 400 GBP here in the UK John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item027 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 07:02:26 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 07:02:26 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305101227.AA06080@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Tue, 11 May 1993 11:22:14 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Lighting Scenes Hi G.Coulter (G.Coulter), on May 11 you wrote: > not far from the light source. Any help on how to set up > an overall ambient light without over exposing objects > near to the camera would be of great help. In the SOLID screen 1. BASELIGHT controls the colour and intensity of the ambient light 2. BRIGHTNESS controls the intensity of the light sources 3. OVERLIGHT controls how overexposed the bright part of the picture becomes .. pages 46 & 47 of the manual for more details. You can also try 1. Turning off auto scaling and tinkering with the light intensities @endnode @node item028 from the INFO requester 2. Put a mattglass globe around the lightsources to soften them up (experiment with colours/sizes of glass/light) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item029 From dino@alex.com Tue May 11 17:40:14 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 10:37:33 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 (fwd) > I'd agree with this - a hacked version was spread middle of last week, > but from what I heard it won't render (HAH!) Think of all those > pirates who downloaded and distributed 5 or 6 megs of useless hack... (heh!) > > > John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk > FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 > Well, that WAS true. But there is now a proper crack out that does render. Although to be honest I still think that anyone doing any professional work would get the legal version. Also if they properly release a version that deliberately did not render as just a demo people could still learn RPL, and do wire frame anims. Answering a lot of questions for themselves, although they of course would not have the wopping manual. Now if only activa would ship in the UK! Dino. @endnode @node item030 From mark@westford.ccur.com Tue May 11 06:50:11 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 07:18:41 +0800. <199305102318.AA11273@casca.b11.ingr.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 93 10:50:11 EDT From: Mark Thompson bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) writes: > Are pouring liquids really possible? No, at leat not in the sense that you probably think. You could not create a blobby object called water, give it some parameters, put it in a cup object, and then watch it pour when you tip the cup. What was in the marketing blurb was: "Pour liquid down a curved pipe and see how it runs through and out the other end." What is going on here is the "liquid" object is being passed through a deformation path that is defined by the user. For example, you could define a snake path and an object passed through that deformation path would bend and turn as it traversed that path. Through careful hand crafting and with some additional effects, you could create the illusion of pouring water. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item031 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Wed May 12 01:48:12 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:31:19 CET In-Reply-To: <9305101201.AA004yo@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Tue, 11 May 1993 07:01:11 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305101201.AA004yo@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 11 you wrote: > Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 > UUCP - activa@motship.hacktick.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 ^ oops.. one K to many!! This should be: activa@motship.hacktic.nl Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item032 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 23:58:12 1993 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 23:58:12 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305111031.AA005pd@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Paul van der Heu ) (at Wed, 12 May 1993 01:51:32 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on May 12 you wrote: > This should be: activa@motship.hacktic.nl > > Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS > Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way > FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl > > AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament > Are you acting as Activa's spokesman for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item033 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 00:07:44 1993 Date: Wed, 12 May 93 00:07:44 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305111050.aa07893@hubbub.westford.ccur.com> (from Mark Thompson ) (at Wed, 12 May 1993 00:41:32 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 Hi Mark (Mark Thompson), on May 12 you wrote: > What is going on here is the "liquid" object is being passed through a > deformation path that is defined by the user. For example, you could define > a snake path and an object passed through that deformation path would bend > and turn as it traversed that path. Through careful hand crafting and with > some additional effects, you could create the illusion of pouring water. Is there no way of programming this as a macro/texture and using it again (somekind of randomising involved?) - does any software on any platform support water type effects? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item034 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Thu May 13 08:54:42 1993 Date: Wed, 12 May 93 17:59:54 CET In-Reply-To: <9305112358.AA0050j@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Wed, 12 May 1993 12:39:02 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305112358.AA0050j@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 12 you wrote: > Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on May 12 you wrote: > > > This should be: activa@motship.hacktic.nl > > > > Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS > > Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way > > FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl > > > > AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament > > > > Are you acting as Activa's spokesman for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? No, but I run both the ACTIVA support BBS and maintain their usenet account on my system. Questions, remarks etc are forwarded to them (being next door certainly helps ;^}) -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item035 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 23:59:08 1993 Date: Wed, 12 May 93 23:59:08 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305111031.AA005pd@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Paul van der Heu ) (at Wed, 12 May 1993 01:51:32 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on May 12 you wrote: > This should be: activa@motship.hacktic.nl > > Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS > Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way > FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl > > AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament BTW, one of they Activa guys in London for the Format Live show said that you would be distributing the objects from their BBS onto the internet - what sites will these be going on, and any chance of announcements of filenames to look out for? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item036 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu May 13 21:45:01 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Who I am and what I do?? Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 13:45:01 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, I would be interested to hear what everyone on the list uses @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } for... And what people dont use it before because.... I would also like to know which version people are using, or what product they are using currently. If you dont think that what you have to post is directly for the list, please send the reply directly to me and I can make a summary. My version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } should be here on Monday... ** Yipee ** WARNING!!! Never wait for the shipment before ordering.... -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item037 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu May 13 16:26:21 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 09:24:19 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Software Failure running TurboReal: Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* Hi Everyone, I wonder if you guys could cast your eyes over this & tell me what you think: I have been using "TurboReal" on my A4000/040 now very happily for about 2-3 months. I use it about three or four times a week and its probably crashed twice in the whole 3 months, does this seem about right or too often? Oh yes by the way I am using version 1.4. Right well here we go into my real question its not really too much of a problem as its simple to get round but as you know its just one of those things that bugs you. I decided last night that I would re-render the "candlescene" picture which is supplied with real in the animations drawer. So what I did was open my @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } drawer, open the animation drawer and double click on the "candlescene" icon, nothing happend at first so I changed the default icon tool to real:TurboReal and up came real with the candle scene loaded. Next I messed around with the scene (only moving the camera in wireframe) and then started to render it. As soon as the rendering 320x200 got just onto the top of the teapot the machine crashed: SOFTWARE FAILURE Error: 8000 0004 Task: 07086430 :- Anyone know what this is? Oh well I thought just one of those things (like ya-do) so I rebooted doing exactly the same, as soon as the Amiga had finished loading @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } and the "candlescene" I went straight to the rendering screen pressed [RENDER], real starts rendering and then crashes again: SOFTWARE FAILURE Error: 80000 000B Basically every time that you load @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } using the "candlescene" icon the machine locks up or crashes with the either one of the above two errors, 0004 or 000B. I then tryed loading "TurboReal" from its icon then loaded the "candlescene" @{"animation" link r3d2a} and rendered it with no problems. I then further tried loading from the "candlescene" icon and everytime the machine crashed. I even deleted all the objects except the teapot, rendered a few time, and then the machine crashed. It seems more likely to happen if you use [NORMAL] mode instead of [LAMPLESS]. Anyway has anyone got any ideas as to what this could be or had any similar problems; I was just asking because I have not had the machine that long & I,m still running it in & testing it with all my software. I really just want to make sure that it is the software and not the machine. What do you think? Thanks -Gary- -G.Coulter@Daresbury.AC.UK @endnode @node item038 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri May 14 00:51:03 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 16:51:03 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305130824.AA01939@gserv1> from "G.Coulter" at May 13, 93 04:31:51 pm Greetings all, > 2-3 months. I use it about three or four times a week > and its probably crashed twice in the whole 3 months, > does this seem about right or too often? Oh yes by the > way I am using version 1.4. It depends on what you are doing... If you have glass objects and put non-glass objects that intersect with them, it can crash quite alot. There are some other things which make it fail. It also seems that the more you try to do the same thing, the more likely it is to crash again. (makes sense really) It is your software, not the machine.... -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item039 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu May 13 17:06:46 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 10:08:25 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* >It depends on what you are doing... If you have glass objects and put >non-glass objects that intersect with them, it can crash quite alot. >There are some other things which make it fail. It also seems that the >more you try to do the same thing, the more likely it is to crash again. >(makes sense really) > >It is your software, not the machine.... Thanks, that at least puts my mind at rest, I guess that There are probably quite a few bugs in version 1.4 that were removed with the upgrade 1.41, I'm going to skip that and go straight onto version2 in 3-4 months. Any Idea why loading via the candlescene icon should cause the software failure? and does the number of the Error mean anything, or is it just a code for divide by zero or something. Anyway the main thing is that its not the machine thanks. PS Just a side note here, do you have problems with things dissapearing in the editor as you zoom in, I was trying to line up an object with the floor last night, but every time I zomed in so that I could see the object the floor vanised only to re-appear when I zoomed out again. > >-- >Brendan Langoulant >brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item040 From swhitenn@reach.com Thu May 13 13:56:02 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 17:56:02 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston ) Subject: Tutorials Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? Shayne White swhitenn.reach.com @endnode @node item041 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Fri May 14 14:27:20 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 12:02:58 CET In-Reply-To: <9305122359.AA0051p@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Thu, 13 May 1993 12:43:53 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Activa International) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305122359.AA0051p@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 13 you wrote: > BTW, one of they Activa guys in London for the Format Live show said > that you would be distributing the objects from their BBS onto the > internet - what sites will these be going on, and any chance of > announcements of filenames to look out for? Yes, I will create a BMS site here which will give you access to most files on the support BBS. Actually all but the ones which restricted access. The BBS and registration of your software is the only way to obtain updates and such from secured areas. The BMS site will take some time though. -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 Once upon a time you could only @{"Imagine" link imagine}, now it's time to get REAL @endnode @node item042 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Fri May 14 16:11:01 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 22:48:01 CET In-Reply-To: <199305130545.AA04873@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au> (from Brendan Langoulant ) (at Thu, 13 May 1993 13:45:18 +0800) From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Who I am and what I do?? Hi Brendan, > Greetings all, > I would be interested to hear what everyone on the list uses @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } for... > And what people dont use it before because.... I would also like to know > which version people are using, or what product they are using currently. > Ok here I start. I have version 2.30 and still learnig at the anims. I used @{"Imagine" link imagine} before and now I see how easy it is to do anims with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } against @{"Imagine" link imagine}.I will do anims for mysel and if am further with REAL I would like to finance myself with. > > My version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } should be here on Monday... ** Yipee ** > congratulations . > WARNING!!! Never wait for the shipment before ordering.... > true ,really true. > Brendan Langoulant > brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au greetings Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item043 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 00:27:19 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 00:27:19 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305130824.AA01939@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Thu, 13 May 1993 16:29:53 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: Hi G.Coulter (G.Coulter), on May 13 you wrote: > Hi Everyone, I wonder if you guys could cast your eyes > over this & tell me what you think: I have been using > "TurboReal" on my A4000/040 now very happily for about > 2-3 months. I use it about three or four times a week > and its probably crashed twice in the whole 3 months, > does this seem about right or too often? Oh yes by the > way I am using version 1.4. About okay - could be fragmented memory or something running in the background... > SOFTWARE FAILURE > Error: 80000 000B Hmm, processor error, althoug I do remember having a similar problem at the same time on that scene with fragmemted memory - maybe a corrupt datafile? > Anyway has anyone got any ideas as to what this could be > or had any similar problems; I was just asking because I > have not had the machine that long & I,m still running > it in & testing it with all my software. I really just want > to make sure that it is the software and not the machine. > What do you think? Could be the program not handling the 040 (as it is the 030 optimised version) or maybe corrupt sysyem files - I had something similar - whenever two programs tried to acess the (corrupt) printer device, it would crash without fail, even though everything else worked fine - reinstalling the files fixed it... -- John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item044 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Fri May 14 17:10:03 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 10:09:42 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* Hi :- John > > Hi Everyone, I wonder if you guys could cast your eyes > > over this & tell me what you think: I have been using > > "TurboReal" on my A4000/040 now very happily for about > > 2-3 months. I use it about three or four times a week > > and its probably crashed twice in the whole 3 months, > > does this seem about right or too often? Oh yes by the > > way I am using version 1.4. > > About okay - could be fragmented memory or something running in the > background... Hmm, not sure about that, the its that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } crashes everytime that you try to render the candlescene, but only if you loaded real from the "candlescene" icon. I used real last night playing around with the candle scene (I loaded real on its own) and not one single problem, I don't think that a couple of crashes with real, especially running on a 040 is out & out. Like you say if its optomized for the 030 then a few problems are to be expected. I also heard that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }1.4 & 1.41 crash if you try to render certain combinations of glass, with intersection solid objects. The main thing that I wanted to check is that the machine is OK I think that it is otherwise it would crash when you loaded real from its icon as well, it must just be some 040 incompatability problem that is a side effect of loading from an @{"animation" link r3d2a} icon. > > > SOFTWARE FAILURE > > Error: 80000 000B > > Hmm, processor error, althoug I do remember having a similar problem > at the same time on that scene with fragmemted memory - maybe a > corrupt datafile? How do you find out what these error mean? > > > Anyway has anyone got any ideas as to what this could be > > or had any similar problems; I was just asking because I > > have not had the machine that long & I,m still running > > it in & testing it with all my software. I really just want > > to make sure that it is the software and not the machine. > > What do you think? > > Could be the program not handling the 040 (as it is the 030 optimised > version) or maybe corrupt sysyem files - I had something similar - > whenever two programs tried to acess the (corrupt) printer device, it > would crash without fail, even though everything else worked fine - > reinstalling the files fixed it... I can't see corrupt system files being the problem, this would cause real to fail both when loaded from its icon as well as an @{"animation" link r3d2a} icon, Just maybe loading from the animation icon sets real up in a slightly different way, Maybe this is a bug in 1.4 which was fixed in 1.41? Like I said at the start my main concern is that the machine is OK. > > > -- > > John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk > FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 Gary SERC DL. @endnode @node item045 From mark@westford.ccur.com Fri May 14 08:38:48 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 12 May 93 12:46:00 +0800. <9305120007.AA00513@heights.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 May 93 12:38:48 EDT From: Mark Thompson > > What is going on here is the "liquid" object is being passed through a > > deformation path that is defined by the user. > Is there no way of programming this as a macro/texture and using it > again (somekind of randomising involved?) - does any software on any > platform support water type effects? It occurs to me that what would have to be done is a fluid dynamics simulation (VERY compute intensive) which would drive a volumetric or blobby particle model. To my knowledge, outside of research using scientific visualization, nothing like this exists. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item046 From dino@alex.com Sat May 15 00:52:24 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 14 May 93 17:51:25 BST From: Dino Fancellu Subject: Uk Real3d v 2.xx Shipping! All UK people who want to buy v 2.xx, Alternative Image are now taking orders. If you can guarantee that you want a copy they will put in a order for you. The cost will be about 330 inc VAT!! They are not getting copies to put on their shelves, just fulfilling orders. This is being done direct with Activa and NOT through the UK distributors as there are still problems in that area. I talked to Yuri. The phone number is 0533-440041, fax 0533-440650. Dino. @endnode @node item047 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Sat May 15 01:41:52 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 10:15:35 CET In-Reply-To: <9305132156.AA28277@ad0.reach.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston )) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 12:37:19 +0800) From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Tutorials Hi Shayne, > > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? > just read the manual.It is full of tutorial examples. > Shayne White > swhitenn.reach.com Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item048 From JAMILLER@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Tue May 14 10:00:06 1993 Date: 14 May 1993 15:00:06 -0500 (CDT) From: JAMILLER@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Could I please be removed from this list? Thank you. -- jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu James Miller _chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._ Enlightenment Happens? @endnode @node item049 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 14 12:50:39 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 16:50:39 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Who I am and wha Reply -- I have version 2.31 of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, and I use for hobby purposes right now, but I have a big interest in Amiga 3D graphics and animation. I would like to make my own computer movies someday, and own my own audio/video studio. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } is a great program, and I hope it gets the attention it deserves.... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 16:14:17 +0800 Hi Brendan, > Greetings all, > I would be interested to hear what everyone on the list uses @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } for... > And what people dont use it before because.... I would also like to know > which version people are using, or what product they are using currently. @endnode @node item050 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Sat May 15 13:42:29 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 17:32:06 CET In-Reply-To: <9305132156.AA28277@ad0.reach.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston )) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 12:39:05 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Tutorials Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston), in <9305132156.AA28277@ad0.reach.com> on May 14 you wrote: > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? Yes, they come with the program -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item051 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 14 12:44:10 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 16:44:10 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Tutorials Reply -- Thorsten, Yes, I am reading the tutorials from the manual now, and they are pretty useful. I was wondering if anyone had written any additional ones - @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } has so many capabilities!! Shayne *======== Regarding ========* Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 01:43:54 +0800 Hi Shayne, > > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? > @endnode @node item052 From nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Sat May 15 13:55:32 1993 Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 15:58:52 +1000 From: Nikola Vukovljak To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Re: ordering @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } from NZ... @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } has a local distributor here in Australia - Color Comp. Systems. They want around A$850 for the package. You could call them if you want: - 61 - 9- 345-3343 , or fax: 61-9-349-5155 Their address: 18 Appleby ST. Balcatta WA 6021 Australia Nik. nvukovlj@ucc.su.OZ.AU P.S. I am in no way connected to them but know them as distributors. @endnode @node item053 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 14 12:56:39 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 16:56:39 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston ) id AA20055; Fri, 14 May 93 16:56:39 EDT Subject: Retina support Is a video driver for the Retina graphics board is still for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2? I am thinking about getting one. How about Picasso, or Merlin (or other boards as well..?). With my version 2.31, there are drivers for Harlequinn and one other board I have not of heard (I think it might be European...VD something??) Thanks! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item054 From nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Sat May 15 14:40:20 1993 Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 15:44:28 +1000 From: Nikola Vukovljak To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: rendering in Real3D 2.0 @endnode @node item055 From nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Sun May 16 13:44:44 1993 Date: Sun, 16 May 1993 03:44:44 +1000 From: Nikola Vukovljak To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Real 3D object sites Can anyone tell me where @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } object sites may be ? Also, is this mailing list being or going to be compiled into archives like the @{"Imagine" link imagine} Mailing list? I am a Co-ordinator of a Graphics Sig here in Australia and would like to be able to place archives of this list on our BBS. So is this being done? Nik. nvukovlj@ucc.su.OZ.AU @endnode @node item056 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 09:34:51 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 09:34:51 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305132156.AA28277@ad0.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston ) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 12:39:05 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Tutorials Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- ITAS - Boston), on May 14 you wrote: > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? I would expect Andy Jones, moderator of the Real_3D Fido echo to write some in the future, which I will post, but as he is still waiting for his upgrade (as are we all in the UK) it may be some time before he gets started John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item057 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 09:32:47 1993 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 09:32:47 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305131102.AA005xl@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Activa International ) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 14:28:57 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi Activa (Activa International), on May 14 you wrote: > > BTW, one of they Activa guys in London for the Format Live show said > > that you would be distributing the objects from their BBS onto the > > internet - what sites will these be going on, and any chance of > > announcements of filenames to look out for? > > Yes, I will create a BMS site here which will give you access to most files > on the support BBS. Actually all but the ones which restricted access. I'll expect an announcement then! > > The BBS and registration of your software is the only way to obtain updates > and such from secured areas. Why is this? What will be on the areas? I did log on directly to the BBS once and register, but I would not do so regularly, as I can use internet as a local call, rather than the necessary international call to phone the BBS. My software is registered, why won't I be able to access all the areas via internet (like any "professional" comms setup)? Could there not be some kind off password protected BMS session for registered users? Otherwise, if this is part of registed users support, I should expect Activa to let me use a method of support which is cheaper for them (rather than sending out disks) and which does not cost me over a pound a megabyte to download down an international phone line - especially as the BBS already HAS internet links, it would not be much trouble would it? Otherwise this is just another example of great support - as long as you live in Holland, Germany or the US, but useless if you live in the UK... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item058 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 10:27:22 1993 Date: Sun, 16 May 93 10:27:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305141238.aa09483@hubbub.westford.ccur.com> (from Mark Thompson ) (at Sat, 15 May 1993 00:38:57 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) Hi Mark (Mark Thompson), on May 15 you wrote: > > > What is going on here is the "liquid" object is being passed through a > > > deformation path that is defined by the user. > > Is there no way of programming this as a macro/texture and using it > > again (somekind of randomising involved?) - does any software on any > > platform support water type effects? > > It occurs to me that what would have to be done is a fluid dynamics simulation > (VERY compute intensive) which would drive a volumetric or blobby particle > model. To my knowledge, outside of research using scientific visualization, > nothing like this exists. Someone did mention to me that you have to make the object conform to a B-spline, and then simply twist and turn the B-spline down the pipe... (I obviously haven't tried this) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item059 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 10:24:49 1993 Date: Sun, 16 May 93 10:24:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305140909.AA27382@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 18:52:28 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: Hi G.Coulter (G.Coulter), on May 14 you wrote: > real, especially running on a 040 is out & out. Like you say if > its optomized for the 030 then a few problems are to be expected. > I also heard that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }1.4 & 1.41 crash if you try to render > certain combinations of glass, with intersection solid objects. > The main thing that I wanted to check is that the machine is OK > I think that it is otherwise it would crash when you loaded real > from its icon as well, it must just be some 040 incompatability > problem that is a side effect of loading from an @{"animation" link r3d2a} icon. I remember what this problem is now, as I always used to get a crash when I tried to finish off a particular type of tubular object in a certain way - you have to make sure you have a bigger stack (at least 50000) and my crash problems went away - I now run it from a WB menu type program that sets a high stack first. > > > SOFTWARE FAILURE > > > Error: 80000 000B > > > > Hmm, processor error, althoug I do remember having a similar problem > > at the same time on that scene with fragmemted memory - maybe a > > corrupt datafile? > > How do you find out what these error mean? I have a little program that you type the numbers in and it tells you what they are, but I am not sure how relevent it is to the A4000 - either that or you buy the ROM Kernal Manuals! > > > it in & testing it with all my software. I really just want > > > to make sure that it is the software and not the machine. > > > What do you think? Definately the software. > I can't see corrupt system files being the problem, this > would cause real to fail both when loaded from its icon > as well as an @{"animation" link r3d2a} icon, Just maybe loading from the > animation icon sets real up in a slightly different way, > Maybe this is a bug in 1.4 which was fixed in 1.41? Like > I said at the start my main concern is that the machine > is OK. See above - the icond doesn't set enough stack, but at least your cli probably has a higher one, so seems to work better.. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item060 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Sun May 16 19:06:50 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 00:06:50 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" Subject: ok... ok...I am getting a 4000 in 2 days... I have a 486-dx 50 right now and am using 3D Studio for the ibm. I am looking for a great renderer for the amiga and my choice is down to 2.... @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } and @{"Imagine" link imagine}. Could someone please give me a run down on how they fair up.... I have seen @{"Imagine" link imagine} (for the pc) so... I know a little about it... So could you tell me how it (@{" Real3D " link r3d2b }) compares??? (This is not to start a renderer war... I just would like to know which will be the best for me to buy...price really doesnt matter...just its ability to create realistic scenes...how good is the modeler....how fast can it renderer....you know the regular stuff.) Thanks for your help. trb3@ra.msstate.edu @endnode @node item061 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon May 17 17:00:57 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 10:02:09 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Stack size for Real3D *-John.S-* Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* Hi John: > I remember what this problem is now, as I always used to get a crash > when I tried to finish off a particular type of tubular object in a > certain way - you have to make sure you have a bigger stack (at least > 50000) and my crash problems went away - I now run it from a WB menu > type program that sets a high stack first. > See above - the icond doesn't set enough stack, but at least your cli > probably has a higher one, so seems to work better.. Thanks for the info, whats the best way to set the stack? Do I have to set it each time I load @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, or is it just an option that you can set either on the icon or from within the program? If you can set it from the SHELL then I guess that I could just write a script first to setup the stack and then to run @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. At the moment I am loading real from its icon, you know the one that has the cube that moves when you press it. I am not using the CLI, just two icons, I guess that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } when called from its ICON could use the default stack size, and when its called from the "CandleScene" ICON it simply sets something up which is a lot smaller. I guess that there must be a way to set the stack size so that when you click on Reals icon it reserves the correct amount of stack. Any info on this would be great, I will however look through the A4000 manuals tonight to see if I can find anything. Thanks again John :- PS Do you have any tips on rendering glass, I have been trying to render a wine-glass this weekend, but have had a lot of trouble getting the lighting right. I set the material up Material Name : Glass Brilliance : 100 Transparency : 100 Speed of light: 70 Spec Bright : 15 Specularity : 10 I made the wine glass white with a slight bit of blue. But When rendered it usually looked too dark. I finally got fed up and put lots of lights round the glass but this just put too much light on the scene. Any ideas John; and does the material look about right? -Gary- SERC Daresbury Laboratory. > > > .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk > FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 > @endnode @node item062 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Mon May 17 16:10:59 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: ok... To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 14:10:59 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305170506.AA11791@Ra.MsState.Edu> from "Tony R. Boutwell" at May 17, 93 01:03:53 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Oops, this was meant to be a personal answer. I think @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is the renderer to chose from those two. @{"Imagine" link imagine} seems to have less support and might not cope with the competition. @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is a good package but is only sold with the Toaster at 2400 USD. Caligari is also good, though. /Peter @endnode @node item063 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 10:18:03 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 10:18:03 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Bugs in 2.30 Several bugs have been reported in this version (and reported back to Activa). When will these bugs be fixed, and how is Activa going to distribute them (for free, I should think)? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item064 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Mon May 17 04:09:06 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 09:09:06 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... is the 2.0 version out yet...and I heard it would retail for 1000? sorry about the 20 questions.... trb3@ra.msstate.edu] @endnode @node item065 From mark@westford.ccur.com Mon May 17 07:42:28 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 16 May 93 17:42:27 +0800. <9305161027.AA0053p@heights.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 93 11:42:28 EDT From: Mark Thompson I wrote: >>It occurs to me that what would have to be done is a fluid dynamics simulation >>(VERY compute intensive) which would drive a volumetric or blobby particle >>model. John wrote: > Someone did mention to me that you have to make the object conform to > a B-spline, and then simply twist and turn the B-spline down the > pipe... Right, thats how it is done in R3D. I was refering to a generalized water simulation that requires no setup for paths and twists. And since the compute power required for that kind of simulation is so high, it is not yet available in entertainment based 3D packages. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item066 From swhitenn@reach.com Mon May 17 15:20:58 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 19:20:58 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Reply -- The version is actually 2.31, it is out and I got it for $500. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 22:07:19 +0800 is the 2.0 version out yet...and I heard it would retail for 1000? sorry about the 20 questions.... trb3@ra.msstate.edu] @endnode @node item067 From swhitenn@reach.com Mon May 17 15:27:50 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 19:27:50 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: ok... Reply -- Having used both @{"Imagine" link imagine} and @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2, I'd say go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. It has a great (and VERY powerful) modeler and is pretty quick. It also has a lot of render options. Both have a learning curve, but @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } allows you to tailor your environment to a higher degree than @{"Imagine" link imagine}. @{"Imagine" link imagine} has more support for 3rd Party objects, textures, etc. but then again @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2 is a very new program. I'd say definitely go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } if money isn't an issue ($500 vs $200). It is the better program. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 13:06:05 +0800 ok...I am getting a 4000 in 2 days... I have a 486-dx 50 right now and am using 3D Studio for the ibm. I am looking for a great renderer for the amiga and my choice is down to 2.... @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } and @{"Imagine" link imagine}. @endnode @node item068 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Mon May 17 10:41:59 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 14:41:59 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 May 1993 20:53:48 +0800 Peter, >"Caligari is also good, though." Just one thing about Caligari, IMHO. It is a piece of trash and the people who work at Octree are narrow minded. I've used Caligari 2 extensively and played around for hours with Caligari 24 and the Broadcast version at an Amiga store. It ranks low in rendering speed (fast rendering? a joke.) gobbles up TONS of memory for simple objects such as logos (A simple logo managed to somehow use up 10MB of contigous RAM) low in FEATURES (oooh, and extruder and lathe.) and doesn't multitask (If I can't switch to Workbench, it is not multitasking.) Sure the latest 24 and Pro version have the free form cage, but its poor brushmap support (No IFF import! only it propritory .6rn, targa.) and lack of a decent point editing tool make it unusable by anyone who really wants to get things done. The only nice thing is the interface. But @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} has an interface which is easily better. And @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I've customized to fit me like a glove. Just wanted to tell people not to waste their hard earned money on Caligari; if you go to an Amiga show and find Octree software, try talking to them about features (I have a friend who worked there and to quote Roman Ormandy "Bump Mapping? Who needs bump mapping?") @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. The only two options. (All of this is IMHO! :) o Charles Lee /////\ :______/\_M_I_G_/\______: FocuS GraphicS o | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o :=---------------------=: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" : Real 3D v.2.31 owner : 2D/3D Graphics | o Brandeis University : Serial #A2000243 : 2D/3D Animation o @endnode @node item069 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Tue May 18 12:57:48 1993 Date: Mon, 17 May 93 16:13:32 CET In-Reply-To: <9305140932.AA00535@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Sun, 16 May 1993 16:58:38 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305140932.AA00535@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 16 you wrote: > Hi Activa (Activa International), on May 14 you wrote: > > I'll expect an announcement then! Do not expect anything soon, it all depends on when we can reach an agreement with the organisation I am hooked into. As you might have noticed Activa is present as an account on my system, they do not have a usenet connection themselves. This is quite expensive in the netherlands (500-600 UKPounds a year just for the fees). So we are trying to get something together, but it might take a while. > > The BBS and registration of your software is the only way to obtain updates > > and such from secured areas. > > Why is this? What will be on the areas? I did log on directly to the BBS once > and register, but I would not do so regularly, as I can use internet > as a local call, rather than the necessary international call to phone > the BBS. The reason is that there are FAR more people with modems then there are people with usenet access. And getting an update from the BBS still is a lot cheaper compared to expensive disk upgrades which would have to be between 30-50 US$ to cover cost. > My software is registered, why won't I be able to access all > the areas via internet (like any "professional" comms setup)? nowhere is said you have a right to internet access by owning a registered piece of software. Support is handled through the BBS and the fact activa is present on usenet is an added bonus. Don't think the whole world is on usenet, this is just a SMALL percentage. > Could there not be some kind off password protected BMS session for > registered users? Otherwise, if this is part of registed users > support, I should expect Activa to let me use a method of support no, updates can only be gotten online with the BBS. > which is cheaper for them (rather than sending out disks) and which usenet is a LOT more expensive compared to the BBS!! > does not cost me over a pound a megabyte to download down an > international phone line - especially as the BBS already HAS internet > links, it would not be much trouble would it? as said before the bbs has no internet links (yet). the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! > Otherwise this is just another example of great support - as long as > you live in Holland, Germany or the US, but useless if you live in > the UK... This I do not get, what's different for the UK?? -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item070 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Tue May 18 11:32:54 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: ok... To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 08:32:54 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305171409.AA19938@Ra.MsState.Edu> from "Tony R. Boutwell" at May 17, 93 10:05:56 pm > is the 2.0 version out yet... The 2.0 for Amiga, YES ! > and I heard it would retail for 1000? Unixversion can be thhat, or perhaps more. Amigaversion is available with 600 $ or less and Windows version might be some 800 $. This last price is just a guess. > sorry about the 20 questions.... They didn't trouble me, though I didn't use time to reply them. > trb3@ra.msstate.edu] Esa Haapaniemi eha@phoenix.oulu.fi @endnode @node item071 From wisdom!dweyr!sauron@fdurt1.fdu.edu Thu May 13 12:55:50 1993 Date: Thu, 13 May 93 17:55:50 EST Reply-To: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org From: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org (Ronald A Stanions) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: R3d-2.0 questions I just received my copy of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 the other day. The program is nothing short of phenomenal! This is going to take months to learn. This is the first time I've ever used a maillist server, so if I'm doing this wrong, don't yell TOO loudly! }-) Ok, some questions: 1) The manual says you can use the key to 'flash' the selected objects, so that you can find them easily. However, the help key has been changed to load an AmigaGuide help document. What happened to the 'flash' ability? 2) The program only seems to support Ham-8 if you open an 8-plane HAM screen and render to it that way. The render menu only allows for HAM or Greyscale rendering directly, and I can't get a Ham-8 screen to render without a LOT of artifacting and jaggies in the process. Currently, this leaves me little choice but to render IFF-24 pics and remap them using another package. Is there something I'm missing? Or is there a planned 'external' driver to allow us to open a ham-8 screen and do a direct render to it, without the artifacting that seems to be unavoidable on an opened Ham-8 screen? 3) If I open a hi-res Ham-8 screen with a borderless window, and then open another 5-plane screen and put tools, view, select, etc... on it, and then open the measuring window, it ALWAYS opens on the ham-8 screen, no matter what I do. I've tried setting public and hijack off on the ham-8 screen, and on on the 5-plane screen, and also to make the 5-plane screen the default screen, and it STILL keeps opening up on the ham-8 screen, no matter which screen is frontmost. I have to close the ham-8 screen to get the measuring window to open up on my work screen. Furthermore, if I then open a ham-8 screen again, and put a borderless window on it, and then close that same screen, the measuring window goes away from the 5-plane screen! Is this a bug? or did I miss something else in the docs? 4) every so often, I close a screen, and it doesn't go away, but it's titlebar name changes from Real (or Real.1 ...) to .eal (or .eal.1 ...) Is this a bug? That's enough questions for the first two hours of experimentation. }-) Ron Stanions -- DragonSoft Development sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org The Dragon's Weyr BBS -- Livingston, NJ sauron@wisdom.bubble.org @endnode @node item072 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Tue May 18 13:19:18 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: ok... To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 11:19:18 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305172327.AA10191@cl1..reach> from "Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston" at May 18, 93 12:44:10 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > textures, etc. but then again @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2 is a very new program. I'd > say definitely go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } if money isn't an issue ($500 vs > $200). It is the better program. Okay, I've different prices for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0. It's 399 USD from Creative Computing, USA. It's 2500 FIM from WestCom in Finland. I think it is 319 UK pounds in UK from Activa(?). /Peter @endnode @node item073 From dino@alex.com Tue May 18 17:46:41 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 10:43:34 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) > From: Paul van der Heu > the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. > the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! > Also as @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.xx seems rather bugged at the moment we would expect to get FREE upgrades to a workable version. That is what people buy professional software at professional prices for. What about patch files? Also can the upgrades be distributed freely? Without a dongle they are useless, are they not? Dino. @endnode @node item074 From dt92haag@bill.forsmark.uu.se Tue May 18 14:00:38 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 12:00:38 +0200 From: Hakan Agren To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) Reply to Mark Thompson conserning pouring water simulation. Mark wrote: >>It occurs to me that what would have to be done is a fluid dynamics simulation >>(VERY compute intensive) which would drive a volumetric or blobby particle >>model. John wrote: > Someone did mention to me that you have to make the object conform to > a B-spline, and then simply twist and turn the B-spline down the > pipe... Mark wrote: > Right, thats how it is done in R3D. I was refering to a generalized water > simulation that requires no setup for paths and twists. And since the compute > power required for that kind of simulation is so high, it is not yet available > in entertainment based 3D packages. Reply: Personally I wouldn't call @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } an entertaiment based 3D package. Maybe you can say that version 1.x was, but v2 is much to complex and expensive to be called entertainment. I agree that the computer power of the Amiga is insuffi- scient when such simulations are conserned, but I've heard that they are about to port it to a silicon graphics machine, and that is completely different. Probably pouring water will still not be included, but the entertainment stamp will definetely be removed. Haakan Aagren (computer student, Sweden) @endnode @node item075 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Tue May 18 04:40:08 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 09:40:08 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... which would be best to get with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }...the amiga version or the windows version...? I have a 486-DX 50 18megs and a 4000 '040 18megs reply trb3@ra.msstate.edu @endnode @node item076 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 08:28:37 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 08:28:37 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305171409.AA19938@Ra.MsState.Edu> (from "Tony R. Boutwell" ) (at Mon, 17 May 1993 22:07:19 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Hi Tony (Tony R. Boutwell), on May 17 you wrote: > is the 2.0 version out yet...and I heard it would retail for 1000? > > sorry about the 20 questions.... It's out everywhere (except the UK) - it's about 400 USD / 400 GBP John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item077 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 08:26:59 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 08:26:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305170902.AA15840@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Mon, 17 May 1993 20:46:26 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-John.S-* Hi G.Coulter (G.Coulter), on May 17 you wrote: > I guess that there must be a way to set the stack size so that > when you click on Reals icon it reserves the correct amount of > stack. Any info on this would be great, I will however look > through the A4000 manuals tonight to see if I can find anything. > I should think it can be done through the icon, or the way I would do it is to change the icon to PROJECT from the info menu, then change the name (umm "START_R3D.icon") and make the default tool c:iconx. Then you make text file in the same directory called START_R3D that is just a text file.. stack 50000 run @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } .. and that's it. Someone probably has a more elegan solution > PS Do you have any tips on rendering glass, I have been trying > to render a wine-glass this weekend, but have had a lot of > trouble getting the lighting right. I set the material up > > Material Name : Glass > Brilliance : 100 > Transparency : 100 > Speed of light: 70 > Spec Bright : 15 > Specularity : 10 > > I made the wine glass white with a slight bit of blue. But > When rendered it usually looked too dark. I finally got fed > up and put lots of lights round the glass but this just put > too much light on the scene. Any ideas John; and does the > material look about right? Yeah, you could make it ever so slightly turbid to show that there is something there to hit the light (like laser beams only show in smokey rooms) Don't forget that with glassy objects, you may want to increase the recursion depth on the SOLID screen, as it sounds like your lightrays may be stopping before they have properly illuminated the glass. What happens if you make the light source brighter from the INFO menu? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item078 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 08:51:43 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 08:51:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305171513.AA0068e@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Paul van der Heu ) (at Tue, 18 May 1993 12:59:53 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on May 18 you wrote: > Do not expect anything soon, it all depends on when we can reach an agreement > with the organisation I am hooked into. As you might have noticed Activa is > present as an account on my system, they do not have a usenet connection > themselves. This is quite expensive in the netherlands (500-600 UKPounds a year > just for the fees). Don't you pay for links to a machine? Th enumber of accounts shouln't make any difference (It doesn't here) > The reason is that there are FAR more people with modems then there are people > with usenet access. And getting an update from the BBS still is a lot cheaper Don't we pay for support in the price of a professional program? If the BBS is already on Usenet, then it can't be too difficult, or are thay actually separate machines on different sites? > compared to expensive disk upgrades which would have to be between 30-50 US$ > to cover cost. Cheaper for Activa, very expensive for foreign users! > nowhere is said you have a right to internet access by owning a registered > piece of software. Support is handled through the BBS and the fact activa > is present on usenet is an added bonus. Don't think the whole world is on > usenet, this is just a SMALL percentage. But if you *already* have usenet links (see above)... > > which is cheaper for them (rather than sending out disks) and which > > usenet is a LOT more expensive compared to the BBS!! Only for Activa.... (it only cost's me 10 GBP per month for an internet node) > the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. > the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! > I have had much trouble connecting to the BBS, and a five minute offpeak call would cost about 7 pounds - it should be much cheaper for Activa to post me out a disk (about 1-2 pounds including disk), but then of course I would be paying a 3 times bigger bill and they would be paying nothing if I called the BBS - and that's assuming I could connect properly first time (which I have not been able too) > > Otherwise this is just another example of great support - as long as > > you live in Holland, Germany or the US, but useless if you live in > > the UK... > This I do not get, what's different for the UK?? No distributer in the UK offers online support or upgrades that I am aware of, which is different from the US or Canada ie, every registered owner of REAL is forced to extremely high British Telecom charges (the highest in the world) to call long distance to the unreliable connects of the Activa BBS. You wouldn't belive the trouble I had getting the Activa phone number @endnode @node item079 from them to call and pay for my upgrade (which I still haven't received after four weeks) And what if people don't have modems? For all that you know, I am writing this from my internet machine at work.. Will we not be getting the same level of support as offered by ASDG and Virtal Reality Labs in the US where users have simply had upgrade disks arriving through their door as soon as upgrades have been released? Okay, it costs money, but that's how you get a reputation for good and reliable support that keeps customers and gets you reccommended to others... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item080 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Wed May 19 00:55:49 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: ok... To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 22:55:49 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305181440.AA05495@Ra.MsState.Edu> from "Tony R. Boutwell" at May 18, 93 10:37:01 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > which would be best to get with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }...the amiga version or the > windows version...? > > I have a 486-DX 50 18megs > and a 4000 '040 18megs The 040 version runs faster than on a DX2-66 due to the optimization. Remeber that the Windows version is a port. /Peter @endnode @node item081 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 17:32:39 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:32:39 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305180943.AA05612@woody.alex.com> (from Dino Fancellu ) (at Tue, 18 May 1993 17:48:36 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hi Dino (Dino Fancellu), on May 18 you wrote: > > From: Paul van der Heu > > > the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. > > the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! > > > > Also as @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.xx seems rather bugged at the moment we would expect > to get FREE upgrades to a workable version. That is what people buy > professional software at professional prices for. Hear, hear - we pay professional prices and expect professional support, no matter where we live... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item082 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 17:34:06 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:34:06 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305181440.AA05495@Ra.MsState.Edu> (from "Tony R. Boutwell" ) (at Tue, 18 May 1993 22:39:06 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Hi Tony (Tony R. Boutwell), on May 18 you wrote: > > which would be best to get with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }...the amiga version or the > windows version...? Amiga version - Windows version is twice the price, half as fast, and does not have the trick interface - it is also not yet available John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item083 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue May 18 14:40:05 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 18:40:05 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) Subject: version Apparently- To: Real 3D post (s=real3d@gu.uwa.edu.au/g=/a=internet/p=/o=/ou=/d=/c=) What is the current version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? I have 2.31. If I'm going to be calling Finland I want to know things like this... :) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item084 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue May 18 14:30:05 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 18:30:05 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Reply -- Chrales, I noticed that you go to Brandeis. I live in the Boston area too, and I'm very interested in Amiga 3D. I just bought @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } version 2 and I love it. I was wondering what type of graphics work you do? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 12:48:37 +0800 Peter, >"Caligari is also good, though." Just one thing about Caligari, IMHO. It is a piece of trash and the people who work at Octree are narrow minded. I've used Caligari 2 @endnode @node item085 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue May 18 14:24:50 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 18:24:50 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: R3d-2.0 questions Reply -- I don't AGA yet :< so I don't know about the HAM-8 screens, but your last question (closing one screen, and having the name changed sounds like you unknowingly had 2 screens open, Real and Real.1 (@{" Real3D " link r3d2b } numbers them like this). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 14:00:31 +0800 I just received my copy of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 the other day. The program is nothing short of phenomenal! This is going to take months to learn. This is the first time I've ever used a maillist server, so if I'm doing this wrong, don't yell TOO loudly! }-) @endnode @node item086 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue May 18 14:45:39 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 18:45:39 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) Subject: Retina support Apparently- To: Real 3D post (s=real3d@gu.uwa.edu.au/g=/a=internet/p=/o=/ou=/d=/c=) Is there planned support for the Retina board with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? A driver shouldn't be too hard to make.... When/if a driver is made, would it be possible to open up a working screen on the Retina? My trusty A2000 and 640x200 with 16 colors doesn't quite cut it anymore. Which brings up another, slighty off-topic question. If I want AGA graphics in the near future, should I get a Retina for my 2000 or buy a 1200 and the GVP 40 Mhz accelerator.... Any suggestions/experiences would be much appreciated and could be send to me personally to avoid another 'this topic belongs XXXXX not XXXXX' discussion... :) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item087 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Tue May 18 19:28:22 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 23:28:22 -0400 From: lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu (charles lee) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Shayne, 1) You misspelled my name :) Anyways, I'm working on various converters to change pdb, frodo, and other file formats to @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } splines, rounded circulars, etc. (pdb = protein databank frodo = x-ray crystallography format) I basically flipped to the back of the manual and started hacking away usinbg rpl :) I'm going to get around to using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } for the purpose for which I bought it: Converting my 2D art to 3D. (BTW, @{"Imagine" link imagine} has been relegated to compressed .lha now... seldom to be used again.) :) -Charles Lee The Supreme Martyr lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu @endnode @node item088 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Wed May 19 16:08:05 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: ok... To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:11:01 MSZ In-Reply-To: ; from "charles lee" at May 18, 93 12:47 (noon) > > Peter, > > >"Caligari is also good, though." > > Just one thing about Caligari, IMHO. It is a piece of trash and the > people who work at Octree are narrow minded. I've used Caligari 2 You can not compare Caligary with programs like @{"Imagine" link imagine} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. Caligary has other features which are very useful for making fast animations (I mean you can calculate the anims very fast). As a gui from the german distributor told me Caligary is not a renderer at all. It does no raytracing, but scanlining. That means it is not able to render glass or mirrors. But he showed me how to work with it - great. I bought a demo-video cassette with several commercial animations (e.g. for Visacard). great! You mean what am I doing then on the R3D Mailing-list? Well, I have R3D, because it is still better for me than Caligary or any other raytracer. And I want this nice mirroring glass spheres :-) Oh, a question: I bought R3D classic on a german show directly from Activa. Now I think of upgrading to version 2.xx. Has anybody did this before? Do I have to write to Activa or to any of the german distributors? (oeh... who is the german distributor at all??) So long, Holger @endnode @node item089 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Wed May 19 16:21:09 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:22:41 MSZ In-Reply-To: <9305171513.AA0068e@motship.hacktic.nl>; from "Paul van der Heu" at May 18, 93 12:58 (noon) > > Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305140932.AA00535@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 16 you wrote: > > The reason is that there are FAR more people with modems then there are people > with usenet access. And getting an update from the BBS still is a lot cheaper > compared to expensive disk upgrades which would have to be between 30-50 US$ > to cover cost. Oh, I am not so sure.... many students DO have usenet account, but no modem! And more and more BBSs get Usenet access. You are right that getting the software from the BBS is cheaper than sending disks - but only as long as you don't have to call from an other country. If you have to do this you have to pay quite a lot for the connection. Then you very seldom get data-rates of 14400 bps. Mostly you can be happy to get 800bps. (I had to call a BBS in USA several times, because the data-rate was lower than 300bps and the file was 500k!) > usenet is a LOT more expensive compared to the BBS!! This depends on where you live and where you have usenet-access. > the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. > the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! As long as you have got a VERY good connection. > > Otherwise this is just another example of great support - as long as > > you live in Holland, Germany or the US, but useless if you live in > > the UK... ups. are there already BBSs in germany to support R3D? So long, Holger @endnode @node item090 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Wed May 19 16:30:51 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: Retina support To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:33:55 MSZ In-Reply-To: <9305182245.AA27130@oldhms.reach.com>; from "Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston" at May 19, 93 8:01 am > Is there planned support for the Retina board with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? A > driver shouldn't be too hard to make.... I have heard that the Retina is already delivered with drivers for several programs (like AD Pro, @{"Imagine" link imagine}, and as far as I know also for R3D) This information is quite old, is anybody able to check this out? So long, Holger @endnode @node item091 From dt92alla@bill.forsmark.uu.se Wed May 19 12:53:56 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 10:53:56 +0200 From: Alexander Larsson To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh > > I guess that there must be a way to set the stack size so that > > when you click on Reals icon it reserves the correct amount of > > stack. Any info on this would be great, I will however look > > through the A4000 manuals tonight to see if I can find anything. > > > > I should think it can be done through the icon, or the way I would do > it is to change the icon to PROJECT from the info menu, then change > the name (umm "START_R3D.icon") and make the default tool c:iconx. Then you > make text file in the same directory called START_R3D that is just a > text file.. > > stack 50000 > run @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } > > . and that's it. Someone probably has a more elegan solution > Why all this? Just select the real icon, then select ICON - INFORMATION in the WB menu. Then just change the stack size. (its a string gadget) and save. Its as simple as that. @endnode @node item092 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Wed May 19 01:06:33 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 05:06:33 -0400 From: lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu (charles lee) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... > Caligari scanline. Yes. I know this as well. I've known it for a long time, ever since Caligari was around in 1987 or so... > Calculate the anims very fast. @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} 2.0 is faster making the preview animation. And if you want to see how dog-slow Caligari is, make a ground plane, some complex objects and see how fast it goes.... BTW, I have a 18MB 28Mhz 040.... and it does not impress me. Neither does the Broadcast version. > The demo tape. The tape came with my Caligari 2. It is okay. @{"Imagine" link imagine} would have a hard time pulling that off; @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} could do it easily. I think that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } could do it just as easily (as soon as I get time to really work on the complex animation parts.) Holger, if you ever meet the Octree group... try talking to Roman Ormandy about a bump map feature... good luck. > Your upgrade question. Best bet is to call Activa. I'm not exactly sure (as I own v.2.) Later! -Charles Lee lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu @endnode @node item093 From watters@cranel.com Wed May 19 06:25:54 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:25:54 EDT From: David Watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com >You can not compare Caligary with programs like @{"Imagine" link imagine} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. >Caligary has other features which are very useful for making fast animations >(I mean you can calculate the anims very fast). > >As a gui from the german distributor told me Caligary is not a renderer at all. >It does no raytracing, but scanlining. That means it is not able to render >glass or mirrors. But he showed me how to work with it - great. How many times do we need to go through this??? Render != Raytrace Raytracing means (very simplified) to reTRACE the RAYs of light that have propagated through a scene from a light source starting from the observer and working backwards. Rendering means to generate a picture or image. Raytracing IS Rendering, Rendering IS NOT necessarily raytracing. Zbuffer, partial Zbuffer, scanline Zbuffer, painters, are all rendering algorithms as much as raytracing is. Caligary and @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} are similar in their rendering techniques (ingnoring the fact that LW > 2.0 can raytrace reflections and refractions). @{"Imagine" link imagine}, @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, TurboSilver, Playmation, etc. are all similar in their rendering techniques in that their primary image rendering method is raytracing. Caligary (and @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}) CAN and should be compared to programs like @{"Imagine" link imagine} and @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } because they are ALL renderers and, in this case, they are all modeling, animation, rendering packages. They all serve the same purpose... to generate a computer image or animation. With that in mind you will quickly see why the programs that raytrace start off the comparison with a significant disadvantage due to the cost that a raytracing algorithm has. What does raytracing gain you? From a user point of view... true reflections and true refractions. If you don't need these... DON'T RAYTRACE. >From the programmers point of view... everything. Raytracing is extremely easy to implement compared to a full featured solid model renderer. IMHO @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is the perfect of both worlds. It is a solid model renderer that has a large number of mapping techniques to allow you to simulate most real- world surfaces. If you want cheap reflections, use an environmental map or a pre-rendered brush map. However, if you would like to simulate accurate refractions and/or reflections, go ahead and turn raytracing on FOR ONLY those surfaces that are transparent and/or reflective. > And I want this nice mirroring glass spheres :-) :) .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item094 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 15:50:11 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 15:50:11 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3D has arrived @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.33b has begun arriving to the UK - two other upgraders from 1.42 have received their packages today - I suppose mine will arrive soon, although Activa tell me it was shipped only yesterday, despite me having paid for it well over a week ahead over the other two upgrades that arrived today... great customer service, eh? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item095 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 08:24:30 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 08:24:30 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305182240.AA27059@oldhms.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) (at Wed, 19 May 1993 07:54:00 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: version Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), on May 19 you wrote: > What is the current version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? I have 2.31. If I'm going > to be calling Finland I want to know things like this... :) Suposedly 2.33b is shipping, though I'll belive it when it's here... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item096 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Wed May 19 23:13:57 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Wed, 19 May 93 11:54:32 CET In-Reply-To: <9305180851.AA0055s@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Wed, 19 May 1993 00:46:54 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Activa International) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Updates to Real3D V.2 This how updates for real are handled: - You can call the BBS to get the latest update. - You can send a letter, FAX or Email to activa stating: - Name - Address - Serialnumber - Real version number (current 2.33) to receive a disk with the updated executables. YOUR REGISTRATION CARD HAS TO BE RETURNED TO ACTIVA TO BE ELIGABLE FOR THIS UPDATE SERVICE. Address to send update requests to: ACTIVA International Keienbergweg 95 1101 GE Amsterdam The Netherlands Email : activa@motship.hacktic.nl FAX : 31 (0)20 6911428 -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 Once upon a time you could only Imagine, now it's time to get REAL @endnode @node item097 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 15:58:20 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 15:58:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305190811.AA02562@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de> (from Holger Mitterwald ) (at Wed, 19 May 1993 16:10:00 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Hi Holger (Holger Mitterwald), on May 19 you wrote: > Oh, a question: I bought R3D classic on a german show directly from Activa. Now I think of > upgrading to version 2.xx. > Has anybody did this before? Do I have to write to Activa or to any of the german distributors? > (oeh... who is the german distributor at all??) Activa are also the distributer in Germany (I think),and yes you should go direct to them - John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item098 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 16:01:27 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 16:01:27 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305190853.AA29091@bill.forsmark.uu.se> (from Alexander Larsson ) (at Wed, 19 May 1993 16:51:46 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh Hi Alexander (Alexander Larsson), on May 19 you wrote: > Why all this? > Just select the real icon, then select ICON - INFORMATION in the WB menu. > Then just change the stack size. (its a string gadget) and save. > Its as simple as that. See? I told you someone would think of soemthing better (I coulnd't be bothered to look up how to chages stacks on the icon...) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item099 From mark@westford.ccur.com Wed May 19 07:41:55 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 18 May 93 17:58:27 +0800. <199305181000.AA19563@bill.forsmark.uu.se> Date: Wed, 19 May 93 11:41:55 EDT From: Mark Thompson > Mark wrote: >>And since the compute >>power required for that kind of simulation is so high,it is not yet available >>in entertainment based 3D packages. > Personally I wouldn't call @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } an entertaiment based 3D package. Perhaps I used the wrong word or was unclear but what I meant by "entertaiment based 3D packages" is any package used for the entertainment industry rather than simulation. There are quite a few very high end pieces of software that serve the entertainment industry: Prisms, Softimage, TDI, Alias, Wavefront, Vertigo, etc..... Remember, special effects for the motion picture industry is entertainment. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item100 From corwin@uni-paderborn.de Wed May 19 21:01:37 1993 From: Markus Stipp Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: watters@cranel.com (David Watters) Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 19:01:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au, imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com In-Reply-To: <9305191425.AA00312@flash.cranel.com> from "David Watters" at May 19, 93 10:25:54 am > How many times do we need to go through this??? > > Render != Raytrace Oh yes, I can tell stories about this. If I'm talking about rendering most people think I'm talking about raytracing. :-( > IMHO @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is the perfect of both worlds. It is a solid model renderer that > has a large number of mapping techniques to allow you to simulate most real- > world surfaces. If you want cheap reflections, use an environmental map or > a pre-rendered brush map. However, if you would like to simulate accurate > refractions and/or reflections, go ahead and turn raytracing on FOR ONLY those > surfaces that are transparent and/or reflective. I don't know much about @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}. I even never have seen it, perhaps because NewTeK thinks the whole world is working with the NTSC-TV-standard. Since three or four years they are telling me that the PAL version is ready "next" year. I think they woulde tell the people the same thing in ten years... But my question is, can @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} do reas shadows ? I have seen a few @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} pictures (The great ones from Mark Thompson (Floaty, Store, and Furnace)). Especially the Floaty-picture looks so as if Floaty is flying above the screen. I think the cause for this are the missing shadows. (But I'm totally amazed by the light-effects in Furnace :-) ) I really hope to see a PAL-Toaster soon :-) -- ...Markus Stipp !! (corwin@uni-paderborn.de) @endnode @node item101 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Wed May 19 21:23:34 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 19:23:34 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305191701.AA01383@rom.uni-paderborn.de> from "Markus Stipp" at May 20, 93 01:11:00 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > I don't know much about @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}. I even never have seen it, perhaps because > NewTeK thinks the whole world is working with the NTSC-TV-standard. Since three > or four years they are telling me that the PAL version is ready "next" year. > I think they woulde tell the people the same thing in ten years... They told me in person at DevCon in January that "they want to become big in the US market first". I take that as there will be no PAL Toaster the next few years. (After that Opalvision will control Amiga desktop video outside the US :) /Peter @endnode @node item102 From mnemonic@netcom.com Wed May 19 05:25:13 1993 From: mnemonic@netcom.com (Mnemonic) Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: watters@cranel.com (David Watters) Date: Wed, 19 May 93 12:25:13 PDT Cc: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au, imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com In-Reply-To: <9305191425.AA00312@flash.cranel.com>; from "David Watters" at May 19, 93 10:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > > >You can not compare Caligary with programs like @{"Imagine" link imagine} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. > >Caligary has other features which are very useful for making fast animations > >(I mean you can calculate the anims very fast). > > > >As a gui from the german distributor told me Caligary is not a renderer at all. > >It does no raytracing, but scanlining. That means it is not able to render > >glass or mirrors. But he showed me how to work with it - great. > > How many times do we need to go through this??? > > Render != Raytrace > [Stuff deleted] I guess according to this distrubutor, the renderer used for all the Listerine Commercials, T2, and the Abyss(Renderman/Reyes if you're wondering) is not really a renderer. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My moral standing is lying down." mnemonic@netcom.com @endnode @node item103 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 20:18:16 1993 19 May 93 20:40 BST Date: Wed, 19 May 93 20:18:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305191701.AA01383@rom.uni-paderborn.de> (from Markus Stipp ) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 01:12:01 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Hi Markus (Markus Stipp), on May 20 you wrote: > I don't know much about @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}. I even never have seen it, perhaps because > NewTeK thinks the whole world is working with the NTSC-TV-standard. Since three > or four years they are telling me that the PAL version is ready "next" year. > I think they woulde tell the people the same thing in ten years... > > I really hope to see a PAL-Toaster soon :-) Don't think you will - friend of a friend who works for NewTek (names changed to protect the innocent) says that they will never make a PAL toaster because they are just making so much money hand over fist from the US market, they don't have to bother! John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item104 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Wed May 19 11:59:39 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 15:59:39 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 19 May 1993 07:57:50 +0800 TO Shayne and others, Well.... I'm working on trasnferring of pdb (protein databank) data to RPL format. I'm have a rudimentary version of my program that can do alpha carbons, residues structured as spheres, etc... I'm eventually going to get around to making a FULLY featured pdb converter for all of us structural biologists out there :) I'm also going to be using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } to do graphics in an up-and- coming release for the 3DO platform.... look for it early next year. :) -Chales Lee o Charles Lee /////\ :______/\_M_I_G_/\______: FocuS GraphicS o | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o :=---------------------=: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" : Real 3D v.2.31 owner : 2D/3D Graphics | o Brandeis University : Serial #A2000243 : 2D/3D Animation o @endnode @node item105 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Thu May 20 04:29:50 1993 id ; Wed, 19 May 93 22:39 MET DST Date: Wed, 19 May 93 22:27:33 CET In-Reply-To: <9305182240.AA27059@oldhms.reach.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston)) (at Wed, 19 May 1993 07:53:01 +0800) From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: version Hi Shayne, > > > To: Real 3D post > (s=real3d@gu.uwa.edu.au/g=/a=internet/p=/o=/ou=/d=/c=) > > > What is the current version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? I have 2.31. If I'm going my version is 2.30 and I am still waiting for latest release. Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item106 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu May 20 05:35:37 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:18:01 MET In-Reply-To: <9305140909.AA27382@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 02:50:10 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: Hello G.Coulter (G.Coulter). On May 14, you have written : > Hi :- John > > > About okay - could be fragmented memory or something running in the > > background... In fact, Guru #8000000B is a line-F emulation error : the processor has tried to pass the instruction to the co-processor(s) connected to it, and if none responded and the access is terminated with a bus error, the processor will go in the unimplemented instruction exception processing, and then fetch the line-F vector. It's a common way to emulate a Floating-Point processor (actually, that's the way the 68040.library uses to emulate the 68882 instruction set). In your case, it seems that memory is trashed by something, maybe a stack too low in your icon, you should give it a try with a stack of at least 50,000. > How do you find out what these error mean? In the Includes exec/alerts.h and/or in the Rom Kernels. > > Could be the program not handling the 040 (as it is the 030 optimised > > version) or maybe corrupt system files - I had something similar - The 68040 is, as far as I know, fully '030 compatible. Hope this helps... Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item107 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu May 20 05:35:45 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 13:24:38 MET In-Reply-To: <9305141238.aa09483@hubbub.westford.ccur.com> (from Mark Thompson ) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 08:37:18 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Pouring water (was Re: Questions about Real3D 2.0 ) Hello Mark (Mark Thompson). On May 14, you have written : > > Is there no way of programming this as a macro/texture and using it > > again (somekind of randomising involved?) - does any software on any > > platform support water type effects? > > It occurs to me that what would have to be done is a fluid dynamics simulation > (VERY compute intensive) which would drive a volumetric or blobby particle > model. To my knowledge, outside of research using scientific visualization, > nothing like this exists. In fact, it should be quite interesting to have a "viscosity" setting for an object or a level of objects. This way, you could throw an object in this "heap" to see it deforming its shape, letting the object passing through. You could even throw these slimy objects in a tube and see it following the shape of the tube. Of course, implementing this in @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } would be quite difficult, and surely be harder than implementing friction was. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item108 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu May 20 05:35:56 1993 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 13:08:07 MET In-Reply-To: <9305140915.AA0056f@gfxbase.in-berlin.de> (from ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de.com (Thorsten Ebers)) (at Fri, 14 May 1993 09:42:22 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Some impressions on Real3D 2.0 & Re: Tutorials Hello Thorsten (Thorsten Ebers). On May 14, you have written : > Hi Shayne, > > > > > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? > > > > > just read the manual.It is full of tutorial examples. Won't it be good to create our own tutorials for this mailing-list ? I think that pouring water, even if it seems a little bit simple when you have a certain knowledge of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, would be a good first example. Some tutorials seem to not be complete, and I know of one (T 6.17.4) that crashes the machine if you follow exactly what's described. I don't know if this is the case for you, but my machine (A2000 A2630 5 Megs) crashes when I try to define the velocity of the ball. If I first create the ball, define its velocity and create the tube, then there is no problems at all... :-( BTW, I haven't seen any where that the directory r3d2:examples/animation contains all the tutorial scenes. While I'm at it, have anyone tried to render the 2 glasses present on the package ? It took me more than 2 hours on an A4000/040 10 Megs to render it at a 736x580 resolution and I've re-done this scene under @{"Imagine" link imagine} with full anti-aliasing (EDLE at 0), Raytrace, a reflective ground and a rotation subdivision of 50 for each glass, and it took me only 30 minutes to render on my A2000 '030... Well, too much for the bad news, @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is really great for realistic renderings and animations, and is even better for the programmer/scientific. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item109 From kholland@chicoma.lanl.gov Wed May 19 17:31:09 1993 Date: Wed, 19 May 93 23:31:09 -0600 From: kholland@chicoma.lanl.gov (AIDE Kiernan) To: mnemonic@netcom.com, watters@cranel.com Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au You mean Renderman is not a ray-tracer... It uses shaders to create its images. A friend told me how shaders work generally and how they are used. I don't think Renderman ray-traces 100%... Then again, all ray-tracing programs (except for some very slow ones) are not real ray-tracing programs because they use tricks to speed up the process. A common one is terminating a RAY that comes from (or rather goes to, if you want to think about it that way) the sky rather than tracing it through the atmosphere until it reaches the sky. @endnode @node item110 From G.Coulter@daresbury.ac.uk Thu May 20 15:08:38 1993 Via: uk.ac.daresbury.dlgm; Thu, 20 May 1993 07:43:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 07:42:27 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh > From POSTMASTER@uk.ac.daresbury.dlgm Wed May 19 16:34:16 1993 > Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 23:22:50 +0800 > Reply-To: real3d@au.edu.uwa.gu.ucc > Originator: real3d > Original-Sender: real3d@au.edu.uwa.gu.ucc > From: John Shiali > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh > X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas > Sender: real3d@au.edu.uwa.gu.ucc > > *-real3d-* > > Why all this? > > Just select the real icon, then select ICON - INFORMATION in the WB menu. > > Then just change the stack size. (its a string gadget) and save. > > Its as simple as that. > > See? I told you someone would think of soemthing better (I coulnd't be > bothered to look up how to chages stacks on the icon...) John & Alexander, thanks for the info regarding the stack size, I modified the stack size re-ran @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } and everything ran fine. I set the stack to 50000, does it really need to be any higher, ie for rendering glass I have 16MB of RAM: so what is a good all round stack size. Thanks agaijn for the help. -Gary- SERC Daresbury. @endnode @node item111 From sking@cis.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 09:32:12 1993 From: scott a king Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 20 May 93 13:32:12 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Forwarded message: > You mean Renderman is not a ray-tracer... It uses shaders to create > its images. A friend told me how shaders work generally and how they are > used. As far as I know Renderman is more a protocol interface than a program. Other programs output to Renderman sort of like @{"Imagine" link imagine} will output DCTV. REYES is the program that Pixar uses to create all those great animations and it is definately positively not a ray tracer. It uses many techniques but its mostly an A-buffer with very complex shading built in. Pixar made up there mind (rightly so) that in order to create animations (shorts or full length films) and get them done in a resonable amount of time ray-tracing was right out. > I don't think Renderman ray-traces 100%... Then again, all ray-tracing > programs (except for some very slow ones) are not real ray-tracing Excuse me. "All ray-tracing program are not ray-tracing programs." HUH. If a program raytraces it traces rays. If a rose is white it's still a rose. > programs because they use tricks to speed up the process. A common one is > terminating a RAY that comes from (or rather goes to, if you want to think If a ray tracer did not do things to speed up processing and wanted to do a good then a ray-traced image would never finish in your life time. (there are an infinite number of light rays hitting a single spot) All these programs render. There are many techniques used to make the images look better. Ray-tracing gives you the ability to do some special things such as reflection, refraction, motion blur, depth of field (focus). These features can be accomplished without ray tracing but it is very hard. Doing something like z-buffer gives you decent results quickly. Its all time vs quality issues. The longer you are willing to wait for an image the better you can make it look. -- Scott sking@cis.ohio-state.edu @endnode @node item112 From jandreas@cs.ulowell.edu Thu May 20 14:33:43 1993 From: Jason Andreas Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: sking@cis.ohio-state.edu (scott a king) Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au In-Reply-To: <9305201732.AA12886@tyranosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu> from "scott a king" at May 20, 93 01:32:12 pm > > Forwarded message: > > > You mean Renderman is not a ray-tracer... It uses shaders to create > > its images. A friend told me how shaders work generally and how they ar > > > used. > As far as I know Renderman is more a protocol interface than a program. Other > programs output to Renderman sort of like @{"Imagine" link imagine} will output DCTV. > > REYES is the program that Pixar uses to create all those great animations and it > is definately positively not a ray tracer. It uses many techniques but its > mostly an A-buffer with very complex shading built in. Pixar made up there mind > (rightly so) that in order to create animations (shorts or full length films) > and get them done in a resonable amount of time ray-tracing was right out. > > > I don't think Renderman ray-traces 100%... Then again, all ray-tracing > > programs (except for some very slow ones) are not real ray-tracing > > Excuse me. "All ray-tracing program are not ray-tracing programs." HUH. If > a program raytraces it traces rays. If a rose is white it's still a rose. > > > programs because they use tricks to speed up the process. A common one is > > terminating a RAY that comes from (or rather goes to, if you want to think > If a ray tracer did not do things to speed up processing and wanted to do a > good then a ray-traced image would never finish in your life time. (there > are an infinite number of light rays hitting a single spot) > > All these programs render. There are many techniques used to make the images > look better. Ray-tracing gives you the ability to do some special things such > as reflection, refraction, motion blur, depth of field (focus). These features > can be accomplished without ray tracing but it is very hard. Doing something > like z-buffer gives you decent results quickly. Its all time vs quality > issues. The longer you are willing to wait for an image the better you can > make it look. > > -- > Scott > sking@cis.ohio-state.edu > Sorry for the HUGE comment, anyway; Renderman is a protocol, like @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}'s .scene files or @{"Imagine" link imagine}'s or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b },etc's equivilant. Renderman can raytrace, it can do radiosity, it can do phong shading, etc. You just have to make it do so by writing a .RIB file to do so. I @{"Imagine" link imagine} Pixar's original intent was to make a standard format for rendering and modeling programs to use. It just so happens that Pixar's REYES package is the only thing on the market currently that will take a Renderman .RIB file complete with textures and spit out a picture. Also, Renderman is not inherently slow, just all the modeling programs that claim to be 'Renderman compatible' output polygons, not NURBS nor spline patches, etc. This is especially the case with macintosh based modelers were only a subset (absolute minimum) of Renderman is actually used. @endnode @node item113 From swhitenn@reach.com Thu May 20 07:29:18 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:29:18 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Some impressions on Reply -- Philippe, I too had problems with the glass scene. It took a long time, and when rendering it to a ham file, the file is incomplete or something - it won't load into any of my viewers. I only have 7 megs of ram - maybe that's the problem? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLOODLESS REVOLUTION... MALCOLM X + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 05:42:34 +0800 Hello Thorsten (Thorsten Ebers). On May 14, you have written : > Hi Shayne, > > > > > Has anyone written tutorials for R3D2? @endnode @node item114 From watters@cranel.com Thu May 20 10:19:53 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 14:19:53 EDT From: David Watters To: kholland@chicoma.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > I don't think Renderman ray-traces 100%... I have not worked with Renderman, but it is my understanding that no percentage of it raytraces. Back in my youth I was talking to a fellow OSU student that had taken a job at Pixar and he said they were as anti-raytrace as you could get. > Then again, all ray-tracing > programs (except for some very slow ones) are not real ray-tracing > programs because they use tricks to speed up the process. Nothing wrong with tricks. Brute force is never the best way to do things. > A common one is > terminating a RAY that comes from (or rather goes to, if you want to think > about it that way) the sky rather than tracing it through the atmosphere > until it reaches the sky. Huh?! When exactly would you like to stop tracing that ray? When it hits Saturn? It is not a trick to have a maximum depth (Zmax) at which you decide to stop looking for an object-ray intersection and insert the backgroud color or backdrop image color at that pixel. .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item115 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Fri May 21 10:07:27 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 10:02:13 CET In-Reply-To: <9305181208.AA00dw6@amipb.gna.org> (from amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard)) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 05:41:50 +0800) From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Some impressions on Real3D 2.0 & Re: Tutorials Hi Philippe, > Hello Thorsten (Thorsten Ebers). On May 14, you have written : > > Won't it be good to create our own tutorials for this mailing-list ? > I think that pouring water, even if it seems a little bit simple when > you have a certain knowledge of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, would be a good first example. > Yeah ,a good idea. > Some tutorials seem to not be complete, and I know of one (T 6.17.4) > that crashes the machine if you follow exactly what's described. I I will try. I have version 2.30. I also tried the rotating example (wineglass) It also does not work.It is a bug.Using an axis for rotating and having only two points leads to an error. > don't know if this is the case for you, but my machine (A2000 A2630 > 5 Megs) crashes when I try to define the velocity of the ball. If > I first create the ball, define its velocity and create the tube, > then there is no problems at all... :-( > I will reprt to you once i have tried it. > BTW, I haven't seen any where that the directory r3d2:examples/animation > contains all the tutorial scenes. > > While I'm at it, have anyone tried to render the 2 glasses present on the > package ? It took me more than 2 hours on an A4000/040 10 Megs to render > it at a 736x580 resolution and I've re-done this scene under @{"Imagine" link imagine} with > full anti-aliasing (EDLE at 0), Raytrace, a reflective ground and a rotation > subdivision of 50 for each glass, and it took me only 30 minutes to render > on my A2000 '030... > Well I hard that iat the render there is a bug with glass that leads to long times. > Well, too much for the bad news, @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is really great for realistic > renderings and animations, and is even better for the programmer/scientific. > But versiion 2.33 is coming.... > Regards, > -- Philippe > > .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. > | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | > | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | > | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | > `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' > Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item116 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 09:09:22 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 09:09:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305200642.AA21762@gserv1> (from "G.Coulter" ) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 15:10:56 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Stack size for Real3D *-Joh Hi G.Coulter (G.Coulter), on May 20 you wrote: > John & Alexander, thanks for the info regarding the > stack size, I modified the stack size re-ran @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } > and everything ran fine. I set the stack to 50000, > does it really need to be any higher, ie for rendering > glass I have 16MB of RAM: so what is a good all round > stack size. Ummm, I suppose that 50000 is fine - I've never needed more than that.... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item117 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 16:11:49 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 16:11:49 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3d2 & interlace rendering I've just had my copy arrive, so I have been experimenting, but there doesn't seem to be a gadget for outputting interlace HAM images (just lo res). When outputting directly to a window, screen sizes are gohsted out - when outputting to a file, I can change the height setting, but this isn't the same as an interlace file - Anyone got any ideas or is this another 'feature' ? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item118 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 22:10:59 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 22:10:59 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: 2 dimensional primatives problem .. the one I mentioned about the extra point causing incorrect weighting of averaged points - it's the symbol that indicates which way up the primative is for bolean operations that is causing the problem.... until it's fixed we'll have to use extremely thin prismns and cubes.... BTW, this is why some of the first tutorials don't work properly... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item119 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 11:18:37 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:18:37 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3D2 & 2.04 Anyone using R3D 2 on a WB 2.04 (not 2.1) machine? Whenever trying to open a new screen, I just get a blank requester where the screenmodes should be - I've seen his before on other (PD) programs - it's only looking for screenmodes under the new 2.1 modes ie - under 2.04 you cannot select screen resolutions. Is this a bug or a feature, or do I have to spend some more money on a minor upgrade so I can select screens on Real? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item120 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 16:43:09 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 16:43:09 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Another Bug? Try making a flat primative (circle, rectangle, whatever), and the startpoint gets an extra point - this means that you can never click and drag over the object to get the average point because it is always weighted incorrectly towards the double-point start... Where *were* the betatesters? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item121 From willow!alexr@comback.login.qc.ca Thu May 20 19:42:15 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 23:42:15 EDT From: alexr@willow.login.qc.ca (Alexandre Rousseau) To: heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl.de Cc: mnemonic@netcom.com, watters@cranel.com, imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others :>You mean Renderman is not a ray-tracer... It uses shaders to create :>its images. A friend told me how shaders work generally and how they are :>used. : :>I don't think Renderman ray-traces 100%... Then again, all ray-tracing :>programs (except for some very slow ones) are not real ray-tracing :>programs because they use tricks to speed up the process. A common one is :>terminating a RAY that comes from (or rather goes to, if you want to think :>about it that way) the sky rather than tracing it through the atmosphere :>until it reaches the sky. :------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :I`m working with TDI`s software packedge TDImage on a IBM RS/6000 (the :software normally called EXPLORE on SGI workstations). This software is :modular and has a lot of programs to do the work. It has one RAY-tracer :and one RENDER-er program. The render can produce reflected and :shadowed objects, but you have to tell which objects shall have shadows :and reflection. If you produce an image with a high resolution (up to :1280 x 1024), the workstation will render let me say 25 minutes; with :the RAY programm where you can define how many rays and how often they :shall come up per pixel, the rendering (raytracing) time will range :from one hour up to 12-15 hours. So if you produce a long animation :with 500 or more hundred images for a commercial spot, you can save a :lot of time if you render the images. Some design students here at our :educational system did an @{"animation" link r3d2a} of 440 images. The animation :rending time was <11 hours with the renderer in a PAL videoresolution (768 x 576). :If someone out there is interested to see which quality the rendered :pictures have, then I can upload some nice images produced by me to :wuarchive in the @{"Imagine" link imagine}/art directory. You will see that there is no :difference to a raytraced image. :Horst Heberle :heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl.de : Yes, please. Or EMail me one jpeg'd image in full res. (hell of an EMail though but I don't mind as long as the jpeg < 100K). Thanks. alexr@willow.login.qc.ca @endnode @node item122 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Fri May 21 11:06:30 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Speed of rendering To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 08:06:30 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305181208.AA00dw6@amipb.gna.org> from "Philippe Berard" at May 20, 93 05:41:50 am > While I'm at it, have anyone tried to render the 2 glasses present on the > package ? It took me more than 2 hours on an A4000/040 10 Megs to render > it at a 736x580 resolution and I've re-done this scene under @{"Imagine" link imagine} with > full anti-aliasing (EDLE at 0), Raytrace, a reflective ground and a rotation > subdivision of 50 for each glass, and it took me only 30 minutes to render > on my A2000 '030... The 2 glasses example is done with B-splines, and very accurate as it. And those are always slower to render than doing everything with other kind of objects. I think you can get to some 5 minutes with making your scene optimal before rendering (with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I mean, and using the A4000). > Well, too much for the bad news, @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is really great for realistic > renderings and animations, and is even better for the programmer/scientific. What kinds of scientific purposes do you have in mind ? Newtonian laws are not very specific in chemistry or physics, maybe they could be used in astronomy... Read you more ? Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item123 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Fri May 21 11:15:29 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: version To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 08:15:29 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305192127.AA005a7@gfxbase.in-berlin.de> from "Thorsten Ebers" at May 20, 93 04:30:17 am > > What is the current version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? I have 2.31. If I'm going > > my version is 2.30 and I am still waiting for latest release. The latest I know is 2.33, and counting all the time. I've given Vesa a suggestion to get the patches to internet/this mailing list. Othervize all new versions are available on the Real-BBS as whole programs. Esa Haapaniemi Universit of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item124 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Fri May 21 11:21:29 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Chemistry with RPL ? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 08:21:29 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: from "charles lee" at May 20, 93 03:54:50 am > Well.... I'm working on trasnferring of pdb (protein databank) data > to RPL format. I'm have a rudimentary version of my program that > can do alpha carbons, residues structured as spheres, etc... I'm > eventually going to get around to making a FULLY featured pdb > converter for all of us structural biologists out there :) I'm not a structural biologist, but I'm also very interested in that project. Could you make it as transferrable as possible ? I'd like to get tube, ball_and_stick, spheres, wire, ... and all similar outputs from .CSSR files also (and perhaps .MOL2, Gaussian .OUT and so on). > I'm also going to be using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } to do graphics in an up-and- > coming release for the 3DO platform.... look for it early > next year. :) Chemistry program ? Or just simple graphics ? May I send that info to csa.graphics to advocate @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } ? Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item125 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Thu May 20 22:40:02 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 2:40:02 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Chemistry with RPL ? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 21 May 1993 13:36:02 +0800 Esa, Good to hear from you again. :) Well, all my program does now is create an RPL C_LINE. I then execute the macro (since it is in RPL format) and then select the line's points (thus placing the points onto the vector stack.) and then select the Rounded Circular function... It works..... but I'm in the process of making it more automated (ie. big RPL macros.) I'll post upp the macro as soon as I'm done working out a few more features in the original program (ie. Handling branched chain and ring structure amino acids.) >tube Easy with the above method. Except if your structure starts branching off in all directions (hence my problems.) >.CSSR .MOL2 .OUT Uuuuuhhh.... Send me the standardized rules for these formats and I'll code up programs for them. >3DO 3DO is a kickin' console with lots of potential. You could send it to advocate @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } if you want... but as of now, the game release is somewhat far off (that is why I said next year!) Nice big and NETWORKED game :) Charles Lee Brandeis University Structural Biology Lab US of A @endnode @node item126 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 07:50:07 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 07:50:07 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Real 3D upgrades QUOTE ON ------------------------------------------------------------ Hiya everybody! I've got some hot news from RealSoft! It seems that they DO take their usergroup very seriously, like the proper company they are. Some facts: - All the bugs that has been found in the previous versions has been corrected now. The "flawless" version that'll ship is numbered 2.34. Released within a month. Free of charge to registered users, and likely to be released on support bbs's around the globe. - Render engine for multiple machine rendering available soon! This means that those people with more than one machine will be able to take advantage of the extra power! Furthermore, the Rendering Engine will eat much less memory than the full version, so some projects can be realized without the extra memory! - Dongle problem: fixed VERY soon! I can't tell you guys everything yet, but it'll end the dongle discussion on this echo....permanently. They are also "very likely" to offer extra dongles to registrered users, but it will probably be sold with the rendering engine. I dunno, guess it's a matter of policy... The dates on the two items above is set to "sometime June/July". They also told me that there will be "significant development" on the user interface and functions! It appears that A LOT of new functions is in the works for v2.40 (or whatever), and they are ALL suggestions from users that are now being incorporated into the program. This is very impressive user-support, I think. I can see no reason why anyone should want to switch to @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}, @{"Imagine" link imagine} etc. when there is such a backing from RealSoft. They did tell me quite a bit about the new features (sorry, promised not to tell) and they are VERY interesting indeed. To all you unfortunate brits who hasn't yet received their copy of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, I can only tell you that they are aware of your problems, and are trying to "push" for a solution. I hope this has cleared up a few points. Speaking of which, Vesa Measkanen, the brain behind @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } promised me that he'll try and get hold of this echo in Finland...now that would be something, wouldn't it? QUOTE OFF ------------------------------------------------------------- NAMES CHANGED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT....... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item127 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Thu May 20 23:27:11 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 3:27:11 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 21 May 1993 15:10:45 +0800 Hmmm... version 2.33 is up on the Realsoft Canada support BBS. I'm going to ask Adam Godfrey if they will allow it being posted to ftp sites.... -The Supreme Martyr o Charles Lee /////\ :______/\_M_I_G_/\______: FocuS GraphicS o | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o :=---------------------=: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" : Real 3D v.2.31 owner : 2D/3D Graphics | o Brandeis University : Serial #A2000243 : 2D/3D Animation o @endnode @node item128 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Fri May 21 18:00:54 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 93 12:03:20 MSZ In-Reply-To: <9305191925.AA28563@netcom3.netcom.com>; from "Mnemonic" at May 20, 93 3:21 am > I guess according to this distrubutor, the renderer used for all the > Listerine Commercials, T2, and the Abyss(Renderman/Reyes if you're > wondering) is not really a renderer. > As far as I know, Renderman does mainly scanlining. Regarding to the given definition, it is a renderer, but not a raytracer. But T2 looks still impressive :-) So long, Holger @endnode @node item129 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Fri May 21 18:05:07 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: Software Failure running TurboReal: To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 93 12:07:50 MSZ In-Reply-To: <9305181518.AA00dwg@amipb.gna.org>; from "Philippe Berard" at May 20, 93 5:36 am > The 68040 is, as far as I know, fully '030 compatible. Nope. The '40 MMU does not have the full instruction set of the '30 MMU. This is for example the reason why AMIX does not run. The FPU in the '40 has a reduced instruction set, too. So long, Holger @endnode @node item130 From oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi Fri May 21 16:07:26 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:07:26 +0300 From: oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi (Panu Hassi) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades The news about the next version with all the bug fixes and new features sounds great! Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Panu Hassi | University of Oulu | Money talks... oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi | Finland | The last thing it said was Goodbye ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item131 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Fri May 21 15:05:25 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: R3D2 & 2.04 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 13:05:25 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305201118.AA00580@heights.demon.co.uk> from "John Shiali" at May 21, 93 01:13:59 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Screenmode requester is only available under 2.1+. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } should check that, but apparently doesn't. I'd call it a bug... /Peter @endnode @node item132 From jannek@zombie.oulu.fi Fri May 21 17:18:43 1993 From: jannek@zombie.oulu.fi (Janne Tuomas Kiiskila) Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 14:18:43 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305211007.AA27406@rieska.oulu.fi> from "Panu Hassi" at May 21, 93 06:50:55 pm > Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some > ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... Well, I don't think he has an email address, but normal mail and phone calls are available, check out the brochure in mikrolabran paivystys, it has his phone number etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Janne Kiiskila at the University of Oulu : jannek@phoenix.oulu.fi - - - - Amiga 4000/040 25MHz Power GeNoCiDe! Amiga-freaks unite! - - - - Oulu area Amiga users mail-list is working, try learning Finnish! - - - - Joining requests to ouamiga-request! - --------------------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item133 From dino@alex.com Fri May 21 20:58:50 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:53:17 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades > The news about the next version with all the bug fixes and new features sounds > great! Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some > ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... > How about sending it to the Activa email address activa@motship.hacktic.nl ? Dino. @endnode @node item134 From watters@cranel.com Fri May 21 06:09:39 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:09:39 EDT From: David Watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: 3DO (was Re: Chemistry with RPL ?) > >3DO? > > 3DO is a kickin' console with lots of potential. You could send > it to advocate Real3D if you want... but as of now, the game > release is somewhat far off (that is why I said next year!) > Nice big and NETWORKED game :) 3DO is not a console. 3DO is a computer game, multimedia, and communication architecture standard that was defined by R.J. Michael and Dave Needle (two of the original Amiga developers) with heavy support from someone at EA. The standard is being supported by some bigtime companies such as AT&T, E.A., Matsushita, Time-Warner (I think) and some others. The spec includes one of the ARM RISC processors and a couple DSPs with at least one custom VLSI to be fabricated by AT&T. Panasonic (Matsushita) is the first (and only at this time) company to be producing a unit and I believe theirs is oriented at the consumer entertainment market. Stock for the company has just started to be sold publicly under THDO. I believe there is a newsgroup that has more and better (more accurate) info. .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item135 From mark@westford.ccur.com Fri May 21 06:46:47 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:46:47 EDT From: Mark Thompson >But my question is, can @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} do reas shadows? I have seen a few @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} >pictures (The great ones from Mark Thompson (Floaty, Store, and Furnace)). >Especially the Floaty-picture looks so as if Floaty is flying above the screen. >I think the cause for this are the missing shadows. (But I'm totally amazed by >the light-effects in Furnace :-) ) Not sure what you mean real shadows. LW 3.0 can use one of two methods for shadow generation: ray casting and shadow mapping. Ray casting is traced shadows. They have hard edges but are very accurate (although slow because they are traced). Shadow mapping is a fast scanline type shadow algorithm that creates very nice soft edge shadows very quickly. Its drawbacks are less accuracy and they are limited to conical (spotlight) light sources. The shadows in both Furnace and the new Creature image are shadow mapped. Note that in the Creature image, some of the shadow casting detail on the walls appears to be floating a few inches from the wall. This is due to a problem in my beta software. Rest assured it will be fixed in the final release software. As for the Floaty picture, there were no shadows generated in that scene. The shadows you see underneath the lawn chairs are simply transparent polygons that look like shadows. This was done to dramatically reduce render time since shadow mapping was not available when that image was created. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item136 From mark@westford.ccur.com Fri May 21 06:57:18 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 21 May 93 11:59:28 +0800. <9305201732.AA12886@tyranosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu> Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:57:18 EDT From: Mark Thompson > REYES is the program that Pixar uses to create all those great animations and > is definately positively not a ray tracer. It uses many techniques but its > mostly an A-buffer with very complex shading built in. Actually, they used A-buffering only briefly before they moved to stochastic supersampling of micro-polygon facets. Each polygon or surface in the scene is subdivided down to subpixel facets which are rendered without smooth shading (why would you ever smooth shade something smaller than a pixel). This approach allowed them to get several interesting effects without too much extra effort such as: vertex independant displacement mapping, motion blur, and depth of field. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item137 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 21 09:20:53 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:20:53 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) Subject: Rendering Engine What is this Rendering Engine? I assume that it will take a project and rendering it (no interface). Is this correct? Can anymore be said about it? Also, will Amiga @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } projects be in the same format as IBM, UNIX, etc versions of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? Thanks, Shayne @endnode @node item138 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Fri May 21 12:18:19 1993 Date: Fri, 21 May 93 16:18:19 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: 3DO (was Re: Chemistry with RPL ?) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 21 May 1993 22:11:00 +0800 >3DO As far as my development (for a game) is concerned; it is CONSOLE with lots of potential. There is no need to inform me of its features, as I have all of them. o Charles Lee /////\ :______/\_M_I_G_/\______: FocuS GraphicS o | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o :=---------------------=: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" : Real 3D v.2.31 owner : 2D/3D Graphics | o Brandeis University : Serial #A2000243 : 2D/3D Animation o @endnode @node item139 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 21:43:35 1993 22 May 93 7:57 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 93 21:43:35 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305211720.AA21691@ad0.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) (at Sat, 22 May 1993 01:57:51 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Rendering Engine Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), on May 22 you wrote: > What is this Rendering Engine? I assume that it will take a > project and rendering it (no interface). Is this correct? Can I think so. > anymore be said about it? Also, will Amiga @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } projects be in > the same format as IBM, UNIX, etc versions of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? I think so - it can be ascii (like RPL (?)) or a binary IFF type file. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item140 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 21:35:32 1993 22 May 93 7:57 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 93 21:35:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305211007.AA27406@rieska.oulu.fi> (from Panu Hassi ) (at Fri, 21 May 1993 18:52:03 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades Hi Panu (Panu Hassi), on May 21 you wrote: > The news about the next version with all the bug fixes and new features sounds > great! Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some > ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... As far as I know he is not at an emal address, but may be joining the Finnish end of the fido echo... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item141 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 21:36:04 1993 22 May 93 7:57 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 93 21:36:04 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305211105.AA03364@mother.ludd.luth.se> (from Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se) (at Fri, 21 May 1993 19:03:35 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: R3D2 & 2.04 Hi Peter.Sjostrom (Peter.Sjostrom), on May 21 you wrote: > > Screenmode requester is only available under 2.1+. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } should > check that, but apparently doesn't. I'd call it a bug... Me too. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item142 From pockets@netcom.com Fri May 21 08:44:41 1993 From: pockets@netcom.com (Sean C. Cunningham) Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 21 May 93 15:44:41 PDT In-Reply-To: <9305211003.AA24414@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de>; from "Holger Mitterwald" at May 21, 93 6:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > > > I guess according to this distrubutor, the renderer used for all the > > Listerine Commercials, T2, and the Abyss(Renderman/Reyes if you're > > wondering) is not really a renderer. > > > As far as I know, Renderman does mainly scanlining. Regarding to the given definition, it is > a renderer, but not a raytracer. > But T2 looks still impressive :-) > > So long, > Holger > > Actually, Renderman itself is not a renderer, but an interface. Renderman has a spec for raytracing but prman (the renderer from Pixar) does not raytrace. prman is a raycasting bucket renderer, not a scanline renderer. -- @endnode @node item143 From eha@phoenix.oulu.fi Sat May 22 11:43:09 1993 From: eha@phoenix.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: Rendering Engine To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sat, 22 May 1993 12:43:09 -0100 (GMT-2:00) In-Reply-To: <9305211720.AA21691@ad0.reach.com> from "Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston" at May 22, 93 01:56:45 am > What is this Rendering Engine? I don't know what specific rendering engine you are interested in, but @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.x can now make outputs with modularity to almost any possible external renderer. One possibility now under work is the DMI Vivid card that could make all calculations with some 100 MFLOPs speed. Also modularity means that output to .DXF and Renderman is possible (and thus the workstation calculations, even Cray if that is needeed). > I assume that it will take a project and rendering it (no interface). Mainly yes, but the Vivid project as far as I know includes also direct interface. Also the forthcoming unix and Windows projects can be used. > Also, will Amiga @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } projects be in > the same format as IBM, UNIX, etc versions of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? Yes, and still the Amigaversion has the best interface, and it's the cheapest (Unixversion can be much more than 1000 $, and Windows version is supposedly 999 $. Current information is that Windows version is some 1/3 of the speed with 486DX66 than Amiga, and the unixversion with X11 and Sun sparc (don't know the model) is faster than Amigaversion). > Thanks, > Shayne This is still unofficial, and my only connection to Vesa is my betatesting friend who calls Vesa almost daily. Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item144 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Sat May 22 21:10:52 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Rendering Engine To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sat, 22 May 1993 19:10:52 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305220943.AA15466@phoenix.oulu.fi> from "Esa Haapaniemi" at May 23, 93 00:57:12 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se I heard the Vivid was dropped due to lack of software support from DMI? /Peter @endnode @node item145 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 22:08:58 1993 Date: Sat, 22 May 93 22:08:58 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3D2 & screens Okay, so I have the new screenmodes, but as far as I can tell, this is what I have... 1. I work in a 256x640 hires screen 2. If I want to render in HAM, it goes to a lores HAM screen 3. If I want a laced screen, I have to.. a) Open a newscreen in HAM b) open a view window on that screen c) arrange the view d) render (which opens *another* laced HAM screen) e) close the first laced screen Is this silly or what, or am I doing it wrong? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item146 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Wed May 22 18:26:13 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: NTSC aspect ratio Lines: 9 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 01:26:13 PDT X-Origin: The Portal System (TM) Hiya! [first post here] After some expiramenting; I've found that "Pixel h/w" seting of 1.16 is pretty good for NTSC HiRes-Laced or NTSC LoRes-NonLace. Does anyone know a more accurate ratio? Does anyone know [off hand] what the Pixel h/w should be for NTSC HiRes-NonLace and NTSC LoRes-Lace? Thanks! CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item147 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Sun May 23 00:46:17 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 4:46:17 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: NTSC aspect ratio In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 23 May 1993 16:23:19 +0800 Carmen... Take a look at your rendering presets in @{"Imagine" link imagine} (a familiar program!) 640x400 uses a y/x of 7:6... dividing that gives you 1.166666667 which is the aspect ratio I used for my DCTV animations (ie NTSC.) 320x400 uses a y/x of 7:12 = 0.58333333 640x200 uses a y/x of 7:3 = 2.3333333 I've only used the NTSC ratio... but the others should work, owing to the fact that I've used those resolutions in @{"Imagine" link imagine}... (BTW, glad to see you're playing with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }!) -Charles Lee lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu IRC: @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } o Charles Lee /////\ :______/\_M_I_G_/\______: FocuS GraphicS o | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o :=---------------------=: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" : Real 3D v.2.31 owner : 2D/3D Graphics | o Brandeis University : Serial #A2000243 : 2D/3D Animation o @endnode @node item148 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sun May 23 13:56:37 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 13:56:37 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3Dv2 - a critique Forwarded from FIDO REAL_3D, by Chris Perigo.... QUOTE ON ------------------------------------------------------------- Brother realists... Look what they've done to my song Ma Look what they've done to my song, Well it's the only thing that I could do half right Now it's turning out all wrong Ma, Look what they've done to my song. As you might have guessed I've got my Realv2 upgrade and ,I promise you, It gives me no pleasure at all to say that I really don't like it very much. It IS Very powerful and impressive and can get results that 1.4 couldn't but.... Using V2.33 feels like working in a huge sprawling company choked with bureaucracy and petty, obstructive middle management. Now, instead of just getting the job done with the help of a trusted friend I feel like I'm labouring under the yoke of an uncaring boss. I realise it's early days yet and that given time I'll learn how to "play the system" in order to get the results I want, but I don't want to "play the system", I just want to get on with the job. There is a strong smell of "too many cooks" about V2 and one is put in mind of the definition of a camel ie "a horse designed by a committee" It seems to me that the development team have concentrated exclusively on getting the new features up and running then have absent mindedly thrown the 1.4 baby out with the bathwater. They've obviously never come across the phrase "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" Enough poetic analogy, I'll try to be more specific but I'm annoyed and that tends to make me overly verbose "Almost all of your old friends are still there, they are just living in different places" reassures the manual.. O.K. my two oldest and most trusted friends from 1.4 are the "=" key (which restricted point averaging to the selected object) and the "/" key (which gave a 3D average of points as opposed to the default 2D average. I cannot overstate the importance of these two keys. They are the oil that makes the 1.4 machine run smoothly, without them you will, at least, double your modelling time and you run the risk of ending up with skewed and badly fitting objects. Virtually all the operations I ever performed in 1.4 involved some combination of these keys. So where are they then? well, the manual assures us that the key serves the same purpose as the old "=" key...well almost, (I could be doing something wrong but if I am It's only because the manual doesn't tell the whole story). When you drag a box using the key you don't end up with one point you get two, you get an extra one where the drag box finished what is worse is that any new building or modifying functions are now tied to a point midway between them so you have in effect created three points!!! So, then is all but unusable, personally I think it's a bug but I can't believe that "everyone" at Realsoft could miss something this fundamental to using the program. It does seem to behave itself a bit better when used in conjunction with the vector stack (ie holding down and whilst dragging, then averaging the resultant vectors and then popping the stack to get the 3D average) it works, but what a flaming carry on. The vector stack is presumably what the old 1.4 "/" key has metamorphosed into and I can see how this could potentially be more versatile and powerful than the old way of doing things. So where are the keyboard shortcuts for controlling the vector stack? do I really have to take time out to use a menu? user friendly they may be but they are very slow. Another thing that worries me How do I exclusively select only 2D info? (ie the old 1.4 default) surely I don't have to ...flip to a perpendicular view then select the cross-section, do the average, pop the stack and then jump back to my original view again? Would it not have been better to provide the vector stack as a separate option and keep the very efficient "/" from 1.4 ? "Our old friends" may still be in there somewhere but they're crippled shadows of their former selves. the clean, logical and above all quick way of working in 1.4 has been sacrificed in the name of versatility and power. Don't get me wrong, I still want the new "improved" features but not at the cost of efficiency. Give me the extra power/versatility but ONLY when I need it. In normal use, give me a default streamlined option. I don't want four key presses when one would do! I've got a life to get on with. Speaking of key presses who is responsible for the default keyboard shortcuts and have they sobered up yet? Why do all the most frequently used options require that you either; take your hand off the mouse (slow), or perform some awkward stretch that can only be achieved by a third year guitar student? For instance toggling between X Y and Z projections. Why not use F1, F2, F3 whose present functions are duplicated elsewhere anyway. For my money, all of the view and camera controls should be on the f keys not finger twisting "right amiga" combinations. Can you redefine them? Not without putting on your programming head which, as an artist, I don't have to do very often so I fully expect to fail. Worst of all though is the fact that the cursor keys combinations move the display in exactly the wrong direction. the manual tries to fob you off with some BS about how if you look to the left of something it appears to move to the right. True enough but if I follow that logic then holding down a cursor key should "appear" to move the object out of shot and eventually round behind me which ain't what happens. What the manual is suggesting is that you are moving the aimpoint but that's what the cursor combinations are for. What IS happening is that either you are moving the observer presumably by some form of recoil or retro rocket or the universe is rotating but you are not. Anyway, the bottom line is it's confusing and counter intuitive so that you invariably end up looking at the wrong side of an object. Would it be too much to ask to allow us the option of inverting the controls to a more natural mode? Please. Another old friend from 1.4 that has been dismembered then re-animated as a powerful but difficult to control monster is the co-ordinate system now appearing on a screen near you as "The Measuring Window!" (FX woman screaming) God I hate this window. It's big, it's bugged and (I may be wrong here) it doesn't seem to offer anything that the old ":" and ";" requesters couldn't manage. The window is just big enough to get in the way all the time. I could live with this if it made my life a lot easier but I've yet to see it prove it's worth. The bug I mentioned occurs when you have more than one view window open. click in a view window then create a rectangle By typing the coordinates into the X,Y,Z gadgets of the measuring window. regardless of which view you selected the wireframe preview will be drawn on the most recently opened view window which may well be hidden behind something else. You could argue that you don't actually need to see what you are doing but then that argument leads to scrapping the visual interface and doing your model making with a text editor. Oh what fun. Now try creating a circle with a given radius ...ah , you've got to switch to using polar coordinates, of course how silly of me. Do me a favour, things were very simple with 1.4 and rightly so. All you needed to draw a circle was a centre point and a radius. The program already knew it was creating a circle and did the rest. OK, I suppose if I had a brain the size of a planet, lots of graph paper and the spatial awareness of a test pilot I could create circles at all sorts of weird angles relative to the input plane but who really cares? Once again functionality has been brutally sacrificed for versatility One last test, using the measuring window try to create a reguar square based pyramid with the point directly above the center point. I've tried till I wept and without success. I'm sure it can be done but however it's achieved I'll bet it's a lot trickier than the two mouse clicks needed in 1.4 How do you create upright cones, pyramids or polymids in V2 anyway? Please can we have the old convention of clicking the Right mouse button to end the definition as a default object back in the next upgrade. In 1.4 you had nice discrete little coordinates up on the title bar that were very useful. With the "relative" option selected you could (by keeping an eye on the figures) create and modify, safe in the knowledge that the sides of your rectangles were a given length or that you were moving an object in one direction only etc. they were an invaluable aid to working accurately when using the mouse. If you needed to enter an exact coordinate you could, as well as angles and factors. the system worked beautifully. There was only one very insignificant snag. If you treated R3D units as say, millimeters it was occasionally possible to end up with a model that was so large that you couldn't get it all in shot. All that was needed was a system whereby one could draw a line and define it's length as say, 250 ft. Using this information the coordinates could then reconfigure so that when you created or modified in future they would be scaled relative to the keyline. In V2 you can have on screen coordinates but they always seem to be "absolute" and purport to offer ludicrous accuracy. Even with the units set to "mm" you've still got four decimal places. Come on, be honest, how often do you have to work to an accuracy of a tenth of a micron! not that this actually means anything in modelling terms anyway. Unless you can produce dimensioned drawings with Real or drive a super accurate lazer guided lathe this "virtual accuracy" is all rather pointless. Why not go the whole hog and include a nanometer option? It might be useful to a quantum mechanic (sic) but it would probably mean we'd all end up with 30 or so decimal places when using realworld units. If the measuring window must stay could I make the following suggestions : 1) Use it to determine how the on screen coordinates work 2) Clear the gadgets automatically when you start typing in them 3) Make it smaller.( preferably 0.0001 mm square) 4) Include a default "R3D units" option 5) Make the " virtual accuracy" configurable 6) Include an option which closes the window and enables two hotkeys which replace the old style ";" and ":" requester keys. 7) Look into the scaling disparity when defining depth (is this right???) 8) Issue another manual section fully explaining it's use 9) Link the gadgets via the return and/or tab keys My appologies if I seem overly sarcastic or irate but the final thing that pushed me over the edge was desperatly looking up the use of the N gadget in the "Reference" section of the manual (you know, the bit that's there to give you the facts) and reading the following facile drivel: " The purpose of the N gadget varies from one function to another" Do they think that's funny? How and why does it vary ? what functions? Who's the flaming comedian? I demand vengance!!! I've got loads more moans but you probably stopped reading this ages ago. Sorry for the increased phonebill I just needed to get this off my chest. If anyone from Realsoft is out there reading this then please, Please get the V2 editor sorted out fast. Get the guy who did 1.4 give him a free hand then lock him in a room with a computer till it's done. To end on a positive note:- There is a lot to like about version 2.33 I like the new select window with all it's cut and paste and multi object select options. very useful. The multiple materials handling is everything I could have wished for The separate I/O system is wonderful and has proved invaluable The new compound tools are superb The ability to construct skewed primitives is a godsend The new "shear" and "rotate and modify" funtions are a dream come true Multiple camera views and a tilting observer make me very happy I've only dabbled with the @{"animation" link r3d2a} functions but I get the impression that I'm in for a Real treat. Its obvious that this is where all the work has gone. It's just such a crying shame that more time and effort couldn't have gone into the user interface. REAL 1.4 was a program that understood that artists and programmers are rarely the same person. It was a program that "anyone" could use to achieve wonderful results. I hope and fervently pray that when the dust finally settles we will have a version of REAL2 that embraces this philosophy. It mustn't be hijacked by boffins who are more interested in numbers and technical wizardry than producing beautiful pictures. Goodbye 1.4 old friend, for better or worse V2 is the future. "It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" Chris PS. I have returned PPS. Just as well "Amiga Computing" didn't take me up on my offer to review real2 for them. I could have done more damage to sales than Activa. PPPS. Sorry Andy, not another word on the subject. promise. QUOTE OFF -------------------------------------------------------------- John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item149 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon May 24 05:48:15 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: R3Dv2 - a critique To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 21:48:15 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305231356.AA005c7@heights.demon.co.uk> from "John Shiali" at May 23, 93 09:13:23 pm > > Forwarded from FIDO REAL_3D, by Chris Perigo.... > > QUOTE ON ------------------------------------------------------------- > > As you might have guessed I've got my Realv2 upgrade and ,I promise you, It > gives me no pleasure at all to say that I really don't like it very much. > > It IS Very powerful and impressive and can get results that 1.4 couldn't > but.... > I realise it's early days yet and that given time I'll learn how to "play the > system" in order to get the results I want, but I don't want to "play the > system", I just want to get on with the job. This statement worrys me more than any other statement that follows.. I still dont have my upgrade of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. > There is a strong smell of "too many cooks" about V2 and one is put in mind > of the definition of a camel ie "a horse designed by a committee" Well the persons involved in writing it are two brothers, and it is still their child. Im sure that they will be very interested when they read this article. > It seems to me that the development team have concentrated exclusively on > getting the new features up and running then have absent mindedly thrown the > 1.4 baby out with the bathwater. They've obviously never come across the > phrase "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" I know people that use @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V1.4 and have asked me if they should upgrade. The problem with the new version is that it is just too complicated. Not everyone that used the previous version will even come close to understanding the new features/workings of V2. It really is a completely new program, written from scratch, and YES they have been concentrating on getting the program up and running. > Speaking of key presses who is responsible for the default keyboard shortcuts > and have they sobered up yet? > > If the measuring window must stay could I make the following suggestions : > > 1) Use it to determine how the on screen coordinates work > 2) Clear the gadgets automatically when you start typing in them Right Amiga X should do that. (Yes I know what a stupid combination, Macintosh users have the Right Amiga on the Left side and this combination works much better from there) > [other points omitted] > REAL 1.4 was a program that understood that artists and programmers are > rarely the same person. It was a program that "anyone" could use to achieve > wonderful results. I hope and fervently pray that when the dust finally > settles we will have a version of REAL2 that embraces this philosophy. It > mustn't be hijacked by boffins who are more interested in numbers and > technical wizardry than producing beautiful pictures. > > Goodbye 1.4 old friend, for better or worse V2 is the future. > > "It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" > > > Chris -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item150 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Sun May 23 23:48:45 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:56:59 MET In-Reply-To: <9305180455.AA14289@uu.psi.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston)) (at Mon, 17 May 1993 20:44:10 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Hello Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston). On May 17, you have written : > Having used both @{"Imagine" link imagine} and @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2, I'd say go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. It > has a great (and VERY powerful) modeler and is pretty quick. It It's not quick enough, IMHO, with curve-based objects (see previous post concerning the 2 glasses scene) > also has a lot of render options. Both have a learning curve, but > @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } allows you to tailor your environment to a higher degree Yes, @{"Imagine" link imagine}'s environment is quite static, but it has some great advantages, like : Move/Rotate/Size mode (allows you to do these tranformations in the 3 views at the same time, and then permitting quite precise 3D manipulations), a magnet mode to deform objects, and a faster (but less flexible) way to handle algorithmic textures (@{" Real3D " link r3d2b } uses a semi-compiled language to do this) and a fast scanline mode. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is really cool if you have a fast processor (at least a '030) and is surely far better than @{"Imagine" link imagine} when it comes to @{"animation" link r3d2a} control, and special artifacts like depth-of-field or motion-blur. It's also valuable for people who want to do animations using Newton's laws of physic, and for programmer who can use the RPL (@{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s Programming Language) to suit their needs... > than @{"Imagine" link imagine}. @{"Imagine" link imagine} has more support for 3rd Party objects, > textures, etc. but then again @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2 is a very new program. I'd > say definitely go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } if money isn't an issue ($500 vs > $200). It is the better program. It is surely a better program, but @{"Imagine" link imagine} steel keeps some advantages. In fact, it depends what you want to have : the old, robust and well known @{"Imagine" link imagine}, or the new, shiny but less stable @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } ? Hope this helps. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item151 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sun May 23 18:29:20 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 18:29:20 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: YET another bug? Is it just me? The tutorial on making the table on page 1.9 (ish) if you call up the colour screen, you can't see what you are drawing after that, as the program uses the same colour as background to draw with, even though it show on the render (I'm using a four colour 2 bitplane modelling screen) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item152 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Mon May 24 02:47:46 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 12:15:01 MET In-Reply-To: (from charles lee ) (at Mon, 17 May 1993 20:47:36 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Hello charles (charles lee). On May 17, you have written : > [opinions about Caligari deleted] > The only nice thing is the interface. But @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} has an interface > which is easily better. And @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I've customized to fit me like > a glove. I agree with your opinion, knowing people who use Caligari Broadcast professionally, they said that its price is far too expensive for what it does, and that it's not professional at all (even if the modeler is quite precise). BTW, the rendering time is quite short when you don't put shadows... I really like the Separate-IO mode of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, it's one of the things from Caligari I've always wanted. > @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. The only two options. @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} comes with a too big dongle for us, PAL (and sometimes SECAM) users. So the competition is : @{"Imagine" link imagine} or @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } here. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item153 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Mon May 24 02:48:02 1993 Date: Thu, 20 May 93 12:31:41 MET In-Reply-To: <9305171513.AA0068e@motship.hacktic.nl> (from pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu)) (at Mon, 17 May 1993 20:58:57 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Activa email address (fwd) Hello Paul (Paul van der Heu). On May 17, you have written : > The reason is that there are FAR more people with modems then there are people > with usenet access. And getting an update from the BBS still is a lot cheaper > compared to expensive disk upgrades which would have to be between 30-50 US$ > to cover cost. I don't really agree with all your statements. First, most of the people having modems have a FidoNet access, allowing them to get free patches for the programs they bought, and it's surely not expensive at all for the companies using this policy. Second, many people have InterNet access (not too much in Europe, though) or, at least, know of someone who has. If they have *just* UseNet access, they can do ftp-mail requests to ftpmail@dec.decwrl.com. > nowhere is said you have a right to internet access by owning a registered > piece of software. Support is handled through the BBS and the fact activa > is present on usenet is an added bonus. Don't think the whole world is on > usenet, this is just a SMALL percentage. Yes, but there is MANY people who can get the things which travel on the net ! :-) > no, updates can only be gotten online with the BBS. Do you know phone calls are quite expensive here, in France ? And is there any possibility to have our own @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } support BBS here, with the right to distribute patches ? > usenet is a LOT more expensive compared to the BBS!! UseNet costs me nothing here (only local phone calls), but my mail/news feed is quite unstable (it's an association). > the updates are approx 430K, with a 14k4 connect this takes around 5 minutes. > the cost would still be cheaper compared to getting a diskupgrade! I'm sure it'll be hard to have a long-distance 14k4 connection, and even more if you have a SupraFaxModem (like I) ! :-( Of course, I think @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s support is far better from Impulse's, but it's in the human nature to try to always do better ! ;-) Sincerely, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item154 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 23 09:59:52 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Aspect Ratio Date: Sun, 23 May 93 16:59:52 PDT Charles, Thanks for the info on the aspect ratios! My guestimate wasn't too far off. > (BTW, glad to see you're playing with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }!) Glad to be using it! Pretty soon, it won't just be playing tho. As soon as I'm confident enough with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, I'll feed @{"Imagine" link imagine} to the sharks and use @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }v2 for my clients. I'm sure they'll be pleased. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item155 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 23 10:04:26 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: More questios on Real3D Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 17:04:26 PDT Carmen here again.. Got a few more questions on @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }.. Version 2 that is.. Black gold, Texas T... 1> Is there away to import a single bitplane IFF as an object? You know, like @{"Imagine" link imagine} does? I've found this feature to be invaluable in @{"Imagine" link imagine}. I would think it would be as simple as Real's font importing thingy. 2> Where is that font-importing thingy anyhow? 3> I read in a teaser text file for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } that it did lens-flare. Is this true? If so, where is it? 4> Motion blur.. In the refererance manual it says Motion blue will work if Sampling is higher than 0 in the rendering settings window [Amiga-s]. Sampling? I don't see no Sampling. Help! CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item156 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Sun May 23 16:34:38 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 20:34:38 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Aspect Ratio In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 24 May 1993 08:13:12 +0800 >Clients There is one thing with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. Not Fast... even on my 28Mhz 040. With carefull optimization, it will do renders quite well in a reasonable time. (For instance, I'm avoiding brilliance and pumping up the specular instead, common @{"Imagine" link imagine} trick...) Darn, I wish I got the PP&S Mercury board, when my G-Force does any access to motherboard... it slows down a bit... :( See you on IRC! -Charles Lee - Molecular Biologist Supreme. lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu @endnode @node item157 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 23 21:18:51 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: UNDO Date: Mon, 24 May 93 04:18:51 PDT Hi all.. Carmen here again.. Is it just me, or does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 NOT save the UNDO ACTIVE setting when you save your environment? I'm using v2.30 CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item158 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Mon May 24 03:55:31 1993 Date: Mon, 24 May 93 7:55:31 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: UNDO In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 24 May 1993 19:29:29 +0800 >Is it just me, or does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 NOT save the UNDO ACTIVE setting when >you save your environment? I'm using v2.30 Yep... The latest version I have 2.33 doesn't save the Undo Active setting either. I guess they'll get around to fixing that; that is trivial compared to some other things I've asked them to look at. Such as, Remember in @{"Imagine" link imagine}, when you hit 'return' it brought your cursor to the next field. Well... when I'm using the measuring window, it doesn't do that so I have to MANUALLY click on the goddamn text box and type in the next number. Grrr... BTW, call up their BBS (The number is on the first or second page of the manual.) and send in your registration card. Once they let you into registered users conference, you can download the latest version, 2.33. I asked them whether I could place it up on an ftp site and BBS's, but they want only reigstered users to get it... doesn't make too much sense, as the program is useless without the dongle (please don't mention those cracked versions.) -Charles Lee, The Mighty MIGHTY Martyr. /////\ lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu C o.o IRC: r3d \__/ -"Fortress AMIGA!" @endnode @node item159 From oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi Mon May 24 18:37:40 1993 Date: Mon, 24 May 93 15:37:40 +0300 From: oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi (Panu Hassi) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: UNDO >Remember in @{"Imagine" link imagine}, when you hit 'return' it brought your cursor >to the next field. Well... when I'm using the measuring window, it >doesn't do that so I have to MANUALLY click on the goddamn text >box and type in the next number. Grrr... When I read this I wondered if it used TAB instead. So I decided to try... open the measurement window, type in a number, press TAB -> a requester tells me that an internal error has happened... :( I don't know about other people, but IMO the program should have been tested quite a bit more. This isn't exactly the first error like this that I've encountered so far (and I'm only using the program now and then at the university). Instead of adding new features just before releasing the program they should have tested, tested and once again, tested the product. Panu Hassi @endnode @node item160 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Tue May 25 08:56:10 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Mon, 24 May 93 13:45:50 CET In-Reply-To: <9305192018.AA0057b@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 03:42:11 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305192018.AA0057b@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 20 you wrote: > > I really hope to see a PAL-Toaster soon :-) > > Don't think you will - friend of a friend who works for NewTek (names > changed to protect the innocent) says that they will never make a PAL > toaster because they are just making so much money hand over fist from > the US market, they don't have to bother! Well, your friend is wrong, from talks I had with NewTek people I understood a PAL toaster would mean a COMPLETE redo of the thing since it is designed as a NTSC device.. Besides contrary to the US, composite video is not seen as a professional broadcast quality in Europe. YUV or RGB is required. The toaster is composite video so would not be upto European broadcast specs anyway. -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item161 From bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Mon May 24 15:33:26 1993 From: bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 24 May 93 20:33:26 CDT In-Reply-To: <9305241245.AA0071v@motship.hacktic.nl>; from "Paul van der Heu" at May 25, 93 9:00 am > Hi John (John Shiali), in <9305192018.AA0057b@heights.demon.co.uk> on May 20 you wrote: > > > > I really hope to see a PAL-Toaster soon :-) > > > > Don't think you will - friend of a friend who works for NewTek (names > > changed to protect the innocent) says that they will never make a PAL > > toaster because they are just making so much money hand over fist from > > the US market, they don't have to bother! > > Well, your friend is wrong, from talks I had with NewTek people I understood > a PAL toaster would mean a COMPLETE redo of the thing since it is designed as > a NTSC device.. Besides contrary to the US, composite video is not seen as a > professional broadcast quality in Europe. YUV or RGB is required. The toaster > is composite video so would not be upto European broadcast specs anyway. This composite/Toaster thing has me really confused, so could someone please help. It is my impression that here in the U.S., broadcast quality is considered to be one or more of the following depending on who you are talking to: a: 1" component/BetaSP/LaserDisk b: 3/4" Umax SP c: S-Video (S-VHS/Hi-8) But nobody ever says composite NTSC is broadcast quality, but yet I hear about TV shows done on the Toaster (granted, these usually turn out to be cable chanel 99 tv shows on some obscure topic in some distant part of the country). So if the Toaster is not broadcast quality, what are all these toaster users using them for? ------------ Bailey Brown "Above all else, confusion reigns." Intergraph Corporation bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Procol Harum @endnode @node item162 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 08:27:54 1993 Date: Tue, 25 May 93 08:27:54 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305241245.AA0071v@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Paul van der Heu ) (at Tue, 25 May 1993 09:00:12 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on May 25 you wrote: > > Don't think you will - friend of a friend who works for NewTek (names > > changed to protect the innocent) says that they will never make a PAL > > toaster because they are just making so much money hand over fist from > > the US market, they don't have to bother! > > Well, your friend is wrong, from talks I had with NewTek people I understood > a PAL toaster would mean a COMPLETE redo of the thing since it is designed as > a NTSC device.. Besides contrary to the US, composite video is not seen as a Umm, yeah, so there will never be a PAL toaster... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item163 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Tue May 25 17:25:41 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 15:25:41 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305250827.AA005dj@heights.demon.co.uk> from "John Shiali" at May 25, 93 03:54:06 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Never say never! There will be no PAL Toaster the next few years. I talked to OpalTech about Opalvision, they assure that the quality of Opalvision will be true broadcast quality. I think NewTek must make something better than Toaster 4000 to keep up. /Peter @endnode @node item164 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Tue May 25 17:34:11 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 15:34:11 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199305250133.AA10274@casca.b11.ingr.com> from "Bailey Brown" at May 25, 93 09:31:59 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > This composite/Toaster thing has me really confused, so could someone > please help. It is my impression that here in the U.S., broadcast quality > is considered to be one or more of the following depending on who you are > talking to: > > a: 1" component/BetaSP/LaserDisk > b: 3/4" Umax SP > c: S-Video (S-VHS/Hi-8) > > But nobody ever says composite NTSC is broadcast quality, but yet I hear > about TV shows done on the Toaster (granted, these usually turn out > to be cable chanel 99 tv shows on some obscure topic in some distant > part of the country). So if the Toaster is not broadcast quality, what > are all these toaster users using them for? Broadcast quality is as misused as true colour. Speaking professional terms, broadcast quality is using beta equipment with components, not composite. Speaking use, the Toaster can be used for broadcasting. Second issue is TV standard. NTSC is not as good as PAL and therefore can the Toaster come closer to broadcast quality with a lower quality. I prefer to call beta equipment broadcast quality and SVHS/Hi8 and lower as medium quality or lower. Some good SVHS/Hi8 stuff comes close, but is distinctable. /Peter @endnode @node item165 From mark@westford.ccur.com Tue May 25 05:31:16 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 25 May 93 09:33:07 +0800. <199305250133.AA10274@casca.b11.ingr.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 93 09:31:16 EDT From: Mark Thompson > It is my impression that here in the U.S., broadcast quality > is considered to be one or more of the following depending on who you are > talking to: > a: 1" component/BetaSP/LaserDisk > b: 3/4" Umax SP > c: S-Video (S-VHS/Hi-8) > But nobody ever says composite NTSC is broadcast quality, First, keep in mind that you are talking about two different things: recording media and video signal format. Composite NTSC is a video signal format and no matter how high end the production, all US broadcast video must be converted to composite NTSC before it is transmitted to you. So to say that composite NTSC is not broadcast quality is ludicrous. The problem is that every time the video signal is processed/recorded, it degrades in quality. Therefore the idea is to keep it in the highest affordable signal quality format until it is actually broadcast. Also note that different types of processing elements introduce different amounts of signal degradation. VTRs are typically one of the greatest sources of signal degeneration so it is important that higher quality media be used, especially when multiple generations will be involved. But video switching equipment (which is what the Toaster is) is generally not nearly as destructive to the signal. Consequently, if used intelligently, the Toaster can certainly be used in broadcast applications and maintain a high degree of quality. As for recording media for broadcast, it does vary a great deal but BetaSP, D1, D2, and 1" are all fairly common for the major networks. 3/4 SP is now more common in the cable channels. S-VHS/Hi-8 are generally unnacceptable for broadcast because they don't hold up well under multiple generations. This doesn't mean they aren't used at all. Hi-8 is used frequently for low cost aquisition. Finally, @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is media independant and need not rely on the Toaster composite output. Most of the highend productions done with @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} were directly dumped to Exabyte tape, unloaded onto an Abekas, and then recorded directly to D1. You can't get any better than that. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item166 From watters@cranel.com Tue May 25 06:37:54 1993 Date: Tue, 25 May 93 10:37:54 EDT From: David Watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others > From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > To: Multiple recipients of list > Broadcast quality is as misused as true colour. Speaking professional > terms, broadcast quality is using beta equipment with components, not > composite. Speaking use, the Toaster can be used for broadcasting. Broadcast _quality_ is totally subjective. The toaster conforms to the RS-170A spec with it`s output signal. On scopes, it's output is well within the range considered good enough for broadcast. I have not seen such claims or figures from OpalVision _yet_. Also, many...MANY production houses I have been to and atleast one station I have been to work with composite signals and not component. > Second issue is TV standard. NTSC is not as good as PAL and therefore >can the Toaster come closer to broadcast quality with a lower quality. I prefer >to call beta equipment broadcast quality and SVHS/Hi8 and lower as medium >quality or lower. Some good SVHS/Hi8 stuff comes close, but is distinctable. NTSC not as good as PAL? It may have better color encoding, but 25fields/sec??? Come on! I have enough eye strain as it is! They both suck! There are a lot of stations that are not using Betacam or any of the digital formats. Hell, I am forced to watch StarTrak TNG in mono off of 3/4" Umatic, as the fox station here in Columbus SUCKS!!! There are many smaller stations going to broadcast grade (another vague term) SVHS, though I believe most commercial people stay away from Hi8 due to it's drop out problems. > /Peter .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item167 From bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Tue May 25 05:25:29 1993 From: bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) Subject: Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 25 May 93 10:25:29 CDT In-Reply-To: <9305250931.aa10495@hubbub.westford.ccur.com>; from "Mark Thompson" at May 25, 93 9:37 pm > > As for recording media for broadcast, it does vary a great deal but BetaSP, > D1, D2, and 1" are all fairly common for the major networks. 3/4 SP is now > more common in the cable channels. S-VHS/Hi-8 are generally unnacceptable > for broadcast because they don't hold up well under multiple generations. > This doesn't mean they aren't used at all. Hi-8 is used frequently for low > cost aquisition. My only interaction with videotape is single-frame recording to a Sony EVO-9650 Hi-8 (I did my first recording today). It seems that this is more akin to aquisition than to editing (I know the head moves around alot, but it is still first generation). So would animations recorded to Hi-8 then duped to BetaSP for editing be broadcast quality? > > Finally, @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is media independant and need not rely on the Toaster > composite output. Most of the highend productions done with @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} were > directly dumped to Exabyte tape, unloaded onto an Abekas, and then recorded > directly to D1. You can't get any better than that. How do they do that? Does @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} use the Abekas' native YUV format, or are their utilities that convert from some well-known RBG file format to Abekas YUV? I've talked to some guys on CI$ who are trying to figure out how to get from 24bit Targa files to their Abekas either on Exabyte or over ethernet. ------------ Bailey Brown "Above all else, confusion reigns." Intergraph Corporation bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Procol Harum @endnode @node item168 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Tue May 25 05:30:29 1993 Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 10:30:29 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades Hi.... Well for the last 2 weeks I have been trying <--- to get @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2 but no one seems to have it...I called all the mail-order companies that were listed in Amiga World, and they all said it was on back-order. I even called North American Distributor and he said it would be 10 or more days before he would have any.... So...Does anyone know of where I could buy this program and have it here within 2-3 days... I am doing a special problems class in 3D and I need the program before it starts thursday. Thanks for your help. Oh I have seen drastically different prices for it also... ranging from 379.00 all the way to 499.00. Anything in that price range is fine. Tony Boutwell trb3@ra.msstate.edu (601)-324-7433 @endnode @node item169 From mark@westford.ccur.com Tue May 25 10:03:15 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) Date: Tue, 25 May 93 14:03:15 EDT From: Mark Thompson Bailey Brown writes: > My only interaction with videotape is single-frame recording to a > Sony EVO-9650 Hi-8. So would animations recorded to Hi-8 then duped > to BetaSP for editing be broadcast quality? Ultimately, it is your client that will decide whether or not the quality is sufficient. For animation, the 9650 and the 7750 are pretty low end and may not be suitable for broadcast applications. But as I said, your client will have to decide if it meets his/her needs. My clients usually demand something better. I have mostly used recordable video discs but I'm starting to believe that the DPS Personal Animation Recorder will do a better job because it has Betacam outputs and is free of "snits" (occasional impulse noise that can show up on video discs that look sorta like dropouts). I'm really looking forward to evaluating one of these units. But D1 will remain my means for high end output. > How do they do that? Does @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} use the Abekas' native YUV format, > or are their utilities that convert from some well-known RBG file format > to Abekas YUV? @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} allows you to create @{"animation" link r3d2a} with D1 resolution and aspect ratio which then must be converted to the Abekas YUV format. There are two solutions here that I am aware of. ImageFX will convert to the Abekas YUV format which may then be transfered to the Abekas via ethernet. If you do not have the Abekas connected locally, you must archive the files to an Exabyte tape which may then be loaded into an Abekas. To do this, ASDG makes a driver for ADPro which does the YUV conversion and controls the Exabyte drive. Contact ASDG or GVP for more details. Hope this helps. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item170 From agrawaxm150@clvax1.cl.msu.edu Sat May 25 09:44:00 1993 Date: 25 May 93 14:44:00 EST From: "CPS 115 Student Account" Subject: Toaster/Component Video To: "real3d" Regarding the Toaster outputing composite video... In the April/May issue of Desktop Video World, there is a review of a product that works with the Toaster to generate component (Y/C) output instead of the standard composite... But with a list price of $949, I guess trying to work something like that into a PAL Toaster would make it considerably more expensive... @endnode @node item171 From bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Tue May 25 09:26:23 1993 From: bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) Subject: Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 25 May 93 14:26:23 CDT In-Reply-To: <9305251403.aa11266@hubbub.westford.ccur.com>; from "Mark Thompson" at May 26, 93 2:09 am Mark, Thanks. Could you explain Dn a little bit? What are the differences bettween D1, D2, 1" and BetaSP. The only one I have a (slight) grasp on is BetaSP. ------------ Bailey Brown "Above all else, confusion reigns." Intergraph Corporation bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com Procol Harum @endnode @node item172 From mark@westford.ccur.com Tue May 25 12:29:39 1993 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Re: Broadcast video (was Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 May 93 03:32:12 +0800. <199305251926.AA00452@casca.b11.ingr.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 93 16:29:39 EDT From: Mark Thompson > Could you explain Dn a little bit? What are the differences > bettween D1, D2, 1" and BetaSP. I'm no video expert (I only know what I need to for my job and business) but the quick and dirty answer is: D1 - digital component (YCbCr) D2 - digital compostite D3 - a cheaper version of D2 1" - analog color under composite (I may be wrong about being composite) BetaSP - analog component (YPbPr) Hi-8/S-VHS - analog color under separate (Y/C) not really component MII - analog component (YPbPr) Digital Betacam - digital component (I'm not sure how this differs from D1) If this is not enough info, I have a compilation of messages from Charles Poynton (a real video expert who occasionally posts to rec.video and comp.graphics) which describes in gruesome detail more technical stuff than you would ever care to know about YUV, NTSC, RGB, resolution, YCbCr, CCIR 601, etc, etc. The newsgroup rec.video.production is a good place to get this kind of info. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item173 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Tue May 25 06:47:39 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Date: Tue, 25 May 93 13:47:39 PDT David R. Waters writes.... > NTSC not as good as PAL? It may have better color encoding, but 25fields/ > sec? David, I'm pretty sure PAL is 25 frames per second, which would yield 50 frames per second. Just as NTSC is 30 frames per second, yielding 60 fields per sec Movies on film is only 24 frames per second. The motion on film is convincin g enough for me, so I don't see how PAL would be worse. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item174 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Wed May 26 06:07:11 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 21:41:49 MET In-Reply-To: <9305210506.AA08413@zombie.oulu.fi> (from eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi)) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 21:27:07 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Speed of rendering Hello Esa (Esa Haapaniemi). On May 20, you have written : > The 2 glasses example is done with B-splines, and very accurate as it. And > those are always slower to render than doing everything with other kind > of objects. I think you can get to some 5 minutes with making your scene > optimal before rendering (with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I mean, and using the A4000). What do you mean by "making your scene optimal" ? I've found that the original scene was set to : Shadowless, anti-aliasing 2 and recursions 6, which should be quite accurate for 2 glasses, a liquid and a mirror under. How do you do to go as fast as a 5 minutes rendering ? I have said that I put exactly the same things in @{"Imagine" link imagine} (well, I didn't bother to do a perfect liquid, though ! :-) ) > What kinds of scientific purposes do you have in mind ? Newtonian laws are > not very specific in chemistry or physics, maybe they could be used in > astronomy... The RPL language is a good tool (still not perfect, IMHO, but I know that Vesa will improve it :-) ) to program simulations (it's always done like this, even on workstations, even if some modules help you sometime). BTW, doesn't someone of the list actually program an RPL tool to do some kind of chemistry simulation ? > Read you more ? Why not ? ;^) Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item175 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Wed May 26 06:07:44 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 21:51:43 MET In-Reply-To: <9305211007.AA27406@rieska.oulu.fi> (from oldfox@rieska.oulu.fi (Panu Hassi)) (at Fri, 21 May 1993 02:50:55 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades Hello Panu (Panu Hassi). On May 21, you have written : > The news about the next version with all the bug fixes and new features sounds > great! Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some > ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... Having sent many suggestions to Esa H. (are you still alive, Esa ? ;-) ) I suggest that we should post our suggestions to the list and that someone collects/classifies them to then send them to Vesa. Why ? Because receiving many suggestions from everywhere would really slow Vesa in his "perfect program" research, and that something clear is *always* helpful. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item176 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Wed May 26 06:08:03 1993 Date: Sun, 23 May 93 21:11:48 MET In-Reply-To: <9305210500.AA24170@uu.psi.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston)) (at Thu, 20 May 1993 20:49:27 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Some impressions on Hello Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston). On May 20, you have written : > Philippe, > I too had problems with the glass scene. It took a long > time, and when rendering it to a ham file, the file is incomplete > or something - it won't load into any of my viewers. I only have > 7 megs of ram - maybe that's the problem? Well, I'm glad to see that my mails arrive to this mailing-list, as my mail/news feed has had some big delivery problems. :-( Well, memory is of course important for this kind of renderings (even if 2 glasses and 2 other objects (liquids) should be very fast to render with an Amiga 4000). My tests have proved (at least, to me ;-) ) that I can render this kind of scene faster with @{"Imagine" link imagine} and a 5Megs A2000 than with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 '040 on a 18Megs A4000 machine :-( Of course, subdivided B-splines are much more powerful than polygons, but sometime you just need fast renderings, where polygons are perfect. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item177 From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au Wed May 26 19:08:18 1993 From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips) Subject: Re: PAL vs NTSC To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 11:08:18 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305251437.AA00334@flash.cranel.com> from "David Watters" at May 25, 93 10:43:12 pm > > NTSC not as good as PAL? It may have better color encoding, but 25fields/sec??? Nonono. 50 fields per second, as any c64 owner will know (c64's do not interlace, hence get 50 frames per second,= 19684 cpu cyles/frame ;) > Come on! I have enough eye strain as it is! > They both suck! Yes. I am very depressed; I have started noticing interlace flicker on 'natural' images. If only I hadn't started looking out for it in competer images, I might not have learned how to notice it so easily... Christopher. @endnode @node item178 From sycom!ad99s461@msen.com Tue May 25 18:59:43 1993 Date: Tue, 25 May 93 23:59:43 EST From: ad99s461@sycom.mi.org (Alex Deburie) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: EGS LIBRARY EGS Library? Is that something from GVP? Haven't tried it, to be honest. I did try contacting Retina, (they are local to me here in Michigan), and all they said was that if my program opens an Intuition screen that it would support their board... Oh well... I'll have to keep a look out for the EGS library... where did you get it? Well, Vertex is coming along real nice, working away on manuals and last minute bugs... should be ready for market RSN. Well, gotta run... nice hearing from ya... -- Alex Deburie ad99s461@sycom.mi.org @endnode @node item179 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Wed May 26 14:08:23 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: Some impressions on To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 11:08:23 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305232011.AA00e4z@amipb.gna.org> from "Philippe Berard" at May 26, 93 06:16:30 am > > I too had problems with the glass scene. It took a long > > time, and when rendering it to a ham file, the file is incomplete > > or something - it won't load into any of my viewers. I only have > > 7 megs of ram - maybe that's the problem? I didn't see any replies to this original mail, but the reason for this impossibility to read with viewers can come from the HAM and rendering either HR/overscan/Interlace, as the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } can produce all of these but not much viewers can show them... > Well, I'm glad to see that my mails arrive to this mailing-list, as my > mail/news feed has had some big delivery problems. :-( I haven't got your picture nor more mail during this week. Maybe they have vanished to great unknown ;) > Well, memory is of course important for this kind of renderings (even > if 2 glasses and 2 other objects (liquids) should be very fast to render > with an Amiga 4000). It really is ! > My tests have proved (at least, to me ;-) ) that I can render this kind of > scene faster with @{"Imagine" link imagine} and a 5Megs A2000 than with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 '040 > on a 18Megs A4000 machine :-( But if you are making the glasses from other than B-splines (primitives) then IMHO (I Must Have Opinion = I have not tried it), @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } can be faster again. > Of course, subdivided B-splines are much more powerful than polygons, but > sometime you just need fast renderings, where polygons are perfect. And by thinking the scene beforehand and making optimization with the objects, everything runs again smoothly. > -- Philippe Read you more ? Esa @endnode @node item180 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Wed May 26 14:18:03 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 11:18:03 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305232051.AA00e59@amipb.gna.org> from "Philippe Berard" at May 26, 93 06:12:38 am >>The news about the next version with all the bug fixes and new features sounds >>great! Does anyone have ideas on how to send email to the author? I have some >>ideas that could make the program just a little bit better... > > Having sent many suggestions to Esa H. (are you still alive, Esa ? ;-) ) > I suggest that we should post our suggestions to the list and that > someone collects/classifies them to then send them to Vesa. Panu Hassi is at the same university as I am, and we have already talked of this subject. I have tried to collect the most interesting texts and forward them to Vesa (on disk, and through my friend who is betatester). BUT he (my friend) got his A4000 last friday, and he was out of any Amigas for 3 weeks (what a suffering) and so Vesa couldn't receive the mails before. I'm vaiting of his (Vesas) comments during this week, and I'll give more mail to read on friday again. I still hope that he gets at least FidoNet connection as soon as possible (my freind is somewhat lazy and too busy with rendering commercial animations (still in highschool)). > Why ? Because receiving many suggestions from everywhere would really > slow Vesa in his "perfect program" research, and that something clear > is *always* helpful. But I cannot be the only connection ? I think Vesa reseives suggestions faster if they are directed to Activa. I'm already too overwhelmed with my own work, and I don't play/use/do anything with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }... I can still continue this saving mails I have done so far, and you must accept the slowness. > -- Philippe Call me back ? Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Department of Chemistry Finland @endnode @node item181 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 08:05:08 1993 Date: Wed, 26 May 93 08:05:08 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305251530.AA24274@Ra.MsState.Edu> (from "Tony R. Boutwell" ) (at Tue, 25 May 1993 23:28:43 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades Hi Tony (Tony R. Boutwell), on May 25 you wrote: > So...Does anyone know of where I could buy this program and have it here > within 2-3 days... I am doing a special problems class in 3D and I need > the program before it starts thursday. Everyone should be out of stock - I heard that Activa had originally only expected to sell 400 copies world wide, hence they have been caught on the hop with the huge demand... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item182 From dino%alex.com%"[193.128.2.65]"@post.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:04:07 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 26 May 93 10:55:33 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Speed of rendering > From: Philippe Berard > Hello Esa (Esa Haapaniemi). On May 20, you have written : > > > The 2 glasses example is done with B-splines, and very accurate as it. And > > those are always slower to render than doing everything with other kind > > of objects. I think you can get to some 5 minutes with making your scene > > optimal before rendering (with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I mean, and using the A4000). > > What do you mean by "making your scene optimal" ? I've found that the > original scene was set to : Shadowless, anti-aliasing 2 and recursions > 6, which should be quite accurate for 2 glasses, a liquid and a mirror > under. How do you do to go as fast as a 5 minutes rendering ? > > I have said that I put exactly the same things in @{"Imagine" link imagine} (well, I > didn't bother to do a perfect liquid, though ! :-) ) > Why not ? ;^) Well, you can cut rendering time considerably by using B-spline->phong, setting subdivisions down to 1, and judicious use of NOREFLECT. These kind of optimisations are detailed in the rendering section of the manual. What is silly is that the scene was set up to be so slow. Dino. @endnode @node item183 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Wed May 26 18:38:18 1993 Date: 26 May 1993 11:40:11 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: Environments in Real3D 2.33 To: "Real3D" I had v2.31 which lost details of any environment I saved. For example, I set up the External Screen library to dctv_r3d.library, set the Paths for the various directories etc. and saved the environment as S:real-startup. I quit Real and restarted the program. The environment it gave me had no external screen library name, no paths, no Undo active (it was before). So I upgraded to v2.33 thinking it would solve the problem. It doesn't seem to :( I even tried saving the environment under a different name and replacing it once inside Real. Still no joy. Has anyone any ideas about which version of Real40 solves this annoying bug? My config: A1500, w/b 2.04, 28MHz 68040 (RCS Fusion), 21MB RAM, 60MB HD, DCTV. Thanks in advance, David Oxley. @endnode @node item184 From eha@phoenix.oulu.fi Wed May 26 14:30:36 1993 From: eha@phoenix.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: Speed of rendering To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 15:30:36 -0100 (GMT-2:00) In-Reply-To: <9305260955.AA24049@woody.alex.com> from "Dino Fancellu" at May 26, 93 06:05:29 pm >>> The 2 glasses example is done with B-splines, and very accurate as it. And >>> those are always slower to render than doing everything with other kind >>> of objects. I think you can get to some 5 minutes with making your scene >>> optimal before rendering (with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } I mean, and using the A4000). >> >> What do you mean by "making your scene optimal" ? I've found that the >> original scene was set to : Shadowless, anti-aliasing 2 and recursions >> 6, which should be quite accurate for 2 glasses, a liquid and a mirror >> under. How do you do to go as fast as a 5 minutes rendering ? > >> I have said that I put exactly the same things in @{"Imagine" link imagine} (well, I >> didn't bother to do a perfect liquid, though ! :-) ) >> Why not ? ;^) > > Well, you can cut rendering time considerably by using B-spline->phong, > setting subdivisions down to 1, and judicious use of NOREFLECT. These > kind of optimisations are detailed in the rendering section of the > manual. What is silly is that the scene was set up to be so slow. OK. Who gives the results of this rendering with those settings ? Is it still in hours or "just 5 minutes" ? Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item185 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Thu May 27 01:15:47 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Tue, 25 May 93 16:04:44 CET In-Reply-To: <199305250133.AA10274@casca.b11.ingr.com> (from bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)) (at Tue, 25 May 1993 09:33:07 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Activa International) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real3D vs. Caligari vs. others Hi Bailey (Bailey Brown), in <199305250133.AA10274@casca.b11.ingr.com> on May 25 you wrote: > This composite/Toaster thing has me really confused, so could someone > please help. It is my impression that here in the U.S., broadcast quality > is considered to be one or more of the following depending on who you are > talking to: > > a: 1" component/BetaSP/LaserDisk > b: 3/4" Umax SP > c: S-Video (S-VHS/Hi-8) Well, we have NTSC and PAL to begin with, NTSC is of less quality compared to PAL but as far as I have seen CVBS/NTSC looks better compared to component/NTSC (in comparisson to CVBS/PAL and component/PAL) That might be why composite is receiving a much wider acceptance in the US as in Europe. Here anything below Y/C is not considered broadcast quality with Y/C being the minimun acceptable standard. -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 Once upon a time you could only @{"Imagine" link imagine}, now it's time to get REAL @endnode @node item186 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Wed May 26 04:53:43 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Help. Date: Wed, 26 May 93 11:53:43 PDT Hi. Is this message getting through to everyone? Someone please respond to this message by quoting me.. Thanks. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item187 From watters@cranel.com Wed May 26 11:19:31 1993 Date: Wed, 26 May 93 15:19:31 EDT From: watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help. > From real3d@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed May 26 15:05:38 1993 > Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 02:48:28 +0800 > Reply-To: real3d@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au > Originator: real3d > Sender: real3d@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au > From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Help. > X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > > Hi. Is this message getting through to everyone? Someone please respond to > this message by quoting me.. Thanks. > > CarmenR - Crazed Artist > CarmenR@cup.portal.com > No, I couldn't read it. There must be a problem somewhere. .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item188 From a186430@sun278.dseg.ti.com Wed May 26 12:12:15 1993 Date: Wed, 26 May 93 17:12:15 CDT From: a186430%moe@sun278.dseg.ti.com To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: my email is wrong! I think that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } is sending stuff to a186430@sun278.dseg.ti.com this is wrong! my email is a186430@moe.dseg.ti.com Thanks, I really would like to receive @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. @endnode @node item189 From garizmen@nermal.santarosa.edu Thu May 27 01:55:42 1993 Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 17:55:42 +0800 (PST) From: Gustavo Arizmendi Subject: Re: Environments in Real3D 2.33 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <199305261038.AA08351@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> I have been out of touch for sometime as my feed for FidoNet moved away. I just started using Internet (4 days) and I have only received @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } mail for one day. Could someone please tell me what the lowest price is for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.x is? and also the address where demo animations are located, besides the file named real3d2anims.lha ? What im looking for is for some HAM, or lower rez (not 24bit) so that i can view them in my computer (A3000) Thank you all. Gustavo @endnode @node item190 From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au Thu May 27 19:16:20 1993 From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips) Subject: Re: Help. To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 11:16:20 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305261153.1.24490@cup.portal.com> from "CarmenR@cup.portal.com" at May 27, 93 02:49:31 am > > Hi. Is this message getting through to everyone? Someone please respond to > this message by quoting me.. Thanks. > > CarmenR - Crazed Artist > CarmenR@cup.portal.com > Reaching me! @endnode @node item191 From fury@solace.hsh.se Thu May 27 10:56:37 1993 Subject: Re: Help. To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 08:56:37 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305270316.AA02575@rama.ee.uwa.edu.au> from "Christopher Phillips" at May 27, 93 11:13:21 am > > > > > Hi. Is this message getting through to everyone? Someone please respond to > > this message by quoting me.. Thanks. > > > > CarmenR - Crazed Artist > > CarmenR@cup.portal.com > > > Reaching me! > > Works fine! @endnode @node item192 From bignone@omalley.cerisi.fr Thu May 27 11:15:17 1993 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 09:15:17 +0200 From: bignone@omalley.cerisi.fr (Bignone Frank) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help. Ok for me :^). @endnode @node item193 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 09:42:48 1993 Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:42:48 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305260818.AA28443@zombie.oulu.fi> (from Esa Haapaniemi ) (at Wed, 26 May 1993 16:23:30 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D upgrades Hi Esa (Esa Haapaniemi), on May 26 you wrote: > But I cannot be the only connection ? I think Vesa reseives suggestions faster > if they are directed to Activa. I'm already too overwhelmed with my own work, > and I don't play/use/do anything with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }... I can still continue this > saving mails I have done so far, and you must accept the slowness. People using the UK Real_3D fido echo are combining lists of problems, bugs and requests - the moderator is collating them and forwarding direct to RealSoft (seven pages were sent last monday) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item194 From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au Thu May 27 23:43:04 1993 From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips) Subject: Re: All these replies To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 15:43:04 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9305270715.AA00705@omalley.cerisi.fr> from "Bignone Frank" at May 27, 93 03:12:43 pm Arrggh! Brendan! Why did you set the list up so 'r'eplies went to the whole list? Can't we just have 'g'roup replies to the list and 'r'eplies going to the sender? List-serv is quite capable of doing this. What do others on the list think? Christopher. @endnode @node item195 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Wed May 26 18:27:37 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Help2 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 01:27:37 PDT [paraphrasing myself] Could someone respond by quoting me to see if my messages are getting through? OK. So I see my questions were getting through. So why hasn't anyone answered? I'm talking about my questions on @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }2. I know it's brand new software, but there's gotta be someone out there who knows something out this program. I know I can be a @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } power user eventually, but I do need some friendly shoves in the right direction. If there's anyone out there who can help, please respond. How does one use Motion blur? According to the manual, you simply turn on Motion blur in the attributes, and it'll work as long as "Samples" is higher than 0 in the render settings. Where is Samples? I see it nowhere. How do I get @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } to remember I like to use UNDO by saving it in the enviro nment? How does one use the font -> object converter? Is it possible to convert 2-bitplane IFF images into objecs? As a soon-to- be Ex-@{"Imagine" link imagine} user, I've found this utlity to be invaluable. Thanks for your time in helping me in advance. Hopefully in the future, I can be the one helping everyone via writing tutorials like I did for @{"Imagine" link imagine} users. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item196 From dino@alex.com Thu May 27 17:33:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 27 May 93 10:33:10 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 > From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Help2 > X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > How does one use Motion blur? According to the manual, you simply turn on > Motion blur in the attributes, and it'll work as long as "Samples" is higher > than 0 in the render settings. Where is Samples? I see it nowhere. > Sorry, have not read that far. However the dice project has motion blur, how about looking at its settings? > How does one use the font -> object converter? > Load up the special tool environment. The load up the fontloader through that. Then pick the font you want by specifiying the directory too look at e.g. r3d2:objects/realtime. Then specify the text string i.e. Hello. The capital letters H will load up object 'H'. Letters "ello" will load up objects _e _l _l _o. However the baseline positioning is all messed up. Realsoft are aware that font handling is not good enough. If you are really keen you could look at the RPL scripts, however you may wish to wait for them to do it properly, I head they might put Compugraphic and/or Postscript support in it. I hope so. You can get nice effects if you have prodraw clip art. If you don`t and you have some specific text in mind I`m sure someone could make some text and send it to you. > Is it possible to convert 2-bitplane IFF images into objecs? As a soon-to- > be Ex-@{"Imagine" link imagine} user, I've found this utlity to be invaluable. > Yep, two ways, apart from obvious texture mapping! You can load in an iff and have each pixel in the object replaced by an object of the same colour, for example you could have "Hello" built out of spheres or whatever. Another way is to load in a iff as a mesh with the height proportional to the colour, I think. Did you have any other ways in mind? Sorry I did not respond before, I am very new to 2.xx and assumed that other more experienced user would come to your aid. Dino. @endnode @node item197 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 11:32:59 1993 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:32:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305270127.1.24011@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Thu, 27 May 1993 16:22:51 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hi CarmenR (CarmenR), on May 27 you wrote: > How does one use Motion blur? According to the manual, you simply turn on > Motion blur in the attributes, and it'll work as long as "Samples" is higher > than 0 in the render settings. Where is Samples? I see it nowhere. I think that means "lightsamples" in the render settings window (middle far right) - I'm a bit vague on this as I haven't read it through - I think it puts motion blur on ay object which is given a velocity - more speed=more blur (I think) > > How do I get @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } to remember I like to use UNDO by saving it in the enviro > nment? Set it, and then projects/environments/save (save it as s:real-startup) - is this not working on your setup? > Thanks for your time in helping me in advance. Hopefully in the future, > I can be the one helping everyone via writing tutorials like I did for > @{"Imagine" link imagine} users. Looking forward to that Carmen... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item198 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 11:34:02 1993 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:34:02 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305270743.AA07242@rama.ee.uwa.edu.au> (from Christopher Phillips ) (at Thu, 27 May 1993 15:41:14 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: All these replies Hi Christopher (Christopher Phillips), on May 27 you wrote: > What do others on the list think? I like it as it is (although we could do with cutting down on the bandwidth @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} seems to be getting!) John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item199 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Thu May 27 17:46:38 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: Help2 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 14:46:38 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305271132.AA005h0@heights.demon.co.uk> from "John Shiali" at May 27, 93 06:37:00 pm >> How does one use Motion blur? According to the manual, you simply turn on >> Motion blur in the attributes, and it'll work as long as "Samples" is higher >> than 0 in the render settings. Where is Samples? I see it nowhere. > > I think that means "lightsamples" in the render settings window > (middle far right) - I'm a bit vague on this as I haven't read it > through - I think it puts motion blur on ay object which is given a > velocity - more speed=more blur (I think) No no.. The samples must be greater than 0 means that there must be animation in memory so as to give the correct way for motion blur (speed/amount). > Set it, and then projects/environments/save (save it as > s:real-startup) - is this not working on your setup? Unfortunately it's not working correctly with current release. It saves only part of the settings. Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item200 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Thu May 27 16:33:05 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: All these replies To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 14:33:05 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305270743.AA07242@rama.ee.uwa.edu.au> from "Christopher Phillips" at May 27, 93 03:39:48 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > Arrggh! > > Brendan! Why did you set the list up so 'r'eplies went to the > whole list? Can't we just have 'g'roup replies to the > list and 'r'eplies going to the sender? List-serv is quite > capable of doing this. Replies in a mailing list shall be sent to the user who wrote the mail, not the list. When I go on vacation in June you'll see vacation email replies, I hope this is fixed by then. /Peter @endnode @node item201 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Thu May 27 23:05:09 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:38:37 CET Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Activa International) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: SKSH <> R3D2 problem It has come to out attention there is a problem when SKSH, a PD unix like shell, is used when R3D V.2 is run. This will prevent Real from opening it's view windows and probably others as well. As far as we know now this problem is with SKSH, not with Real. -- =20 Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Nethe= rlands =20 Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 69718= 80 =20 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 =20 Once upon a time you could only Imagine, now it's time to get RE= AL @endnode @node item202 From boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl Fri May 28 08:51:36 1993 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 16:51:34 MET From: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl (Paul Kolenbrander) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Subscribe, please? Sorry for bothering the list with this, but it's the only address I was given. Please subscribe me, my address is: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl CYa, Paul O //\/ \/\ boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl .../ Danger: I'm getting more Real by the minute! @endnode @node item203 From swhitenn@reach.com Thu May 27 08:10:41 1993 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 12:10:41 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Reply -- Philippe, Yes, I have to admit @{"Imagine" link imagine} is still useful. I am disappointed with Impulse as a company, however. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } seems to have a company that is standing behind their product and are gung ho on improving it. It is difficult to use if your math/physics background is weak, and the options are overpowering at first. However, I want to invest the time into it to utilize it's power. I have an RCS '040 board, so speed is not too bad :). R3D2 does chew up memory like it is going out of style though... Shayne *======== Regarding ========* Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 23:50:21 +0800 Hello Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston). On May 17, you have written : > Having used both @{"Imagine" link imagine} and @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2, I'd say go with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. It > has a great (and VERY powerful) modeler and is pretty quick. It It's not quick enough, IMHO, with curve-based objects (see previous post @endnode @node item204 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Thu May 27 04:37:48 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: RE: Help2 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:37:48 PDT David Oxley, Thanks so much for your help. > What do you reckon to Real? I liked the 3 view real-time feedback of Imagi So far, I really like it. The modelling is something I've done the least of. I think there's a little less WSYWIG in Real than @{"Imagine" link imagine}. Especially when it comes to primative modelling with boolean. I'm 'used' to every object having an axis. But I see now that there are more @{"animation" link r3d2a} possibil- ities when your object's "handle" isn't restricted to a single point. The spline modelling is great, but I have to get used to it as well.. I tried doing the modelling a head tutorial, but couldn't get a good looking head for the life of me. There's just alot of things I have to unlearn from @{"Imagine" link imagine}, and get used to in @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }. Thanks again for your help. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item205 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Thu May 27 04:43:48 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Help2 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:43:48 PDT Thanks for your help. I knew about the IFF->altitute mesh feature.. I just wanted the outline of the bitmap as a spline. The feature that converts a bitmap into a bunch of spheres might do, but it's kind of an awkward way of doing it. Especially when I work with very large bitmaps for the utimate in quality. I could possible convert to sheres and then later trace a spline curve using the spheres as a guide [goofy! But it might work!]. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item206 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Thu May 27 04:55:36 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Help2 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:55:36 PDT John, Nope, UNDO is not saved along with the rest of my environment in S:real-startup. I have to go and manually turn it on each session. Of course, I usually remember it turn it on when it's too late. :) CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item207 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Thu May 27 04:54:11 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Help2 Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:54:11 PDT John, Thanks for yer help... again. :) So far I've learned that lightsamples helps your fuzzy-edged lightsources [wall, line] be fuzzy, or fuzzier. Does it also enhance motion blur effects? Someone else told me that the "Samples" they were referring to is in the Animation Window. But it's actually "Smpl:" not "Samples" CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item208 From mcdonoug@dmpe.csiro.au Fri May 28 22:11:49 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 12:11:49 +1000 From: Graeme Mc Donough To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help. @endnode @node item209 From mcdonoug@dmpe.csiro.au Fri May 28 22:12:19 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 12:12:19 +1000 From: Graeme Mc Donough To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help. ok to me sorry about the double up @endnode @node item210 From ecker@cps.msu.edu Thu May 27 21:28:26 1993 id AA19415; Fri, 28 May 93 01:28:26 EDT Date: Fri, 28 May 93 01:28:26 EDT From: ecker@cps.msu.edu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help. just joined... how do I un-join if (when) I want to? -Joe @endnode @node item211 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:30:41 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:30:41 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3D AG> Please keep in mind that the complexity and redesign of the program to AG> allow the introduction of some quite remarkable features has, in its AG> first incarnation, been released with the intent of getting the AG> program out so that we can get feed back on how to best improve the AG> useability. CP> So NOW we get a beta copy to play with AND get to pay for the CP> privilege? Exactly my feeling when I read that reply. "Cheek!" was the word that came into my head. CP> No offence meant Adam but why does this sound like serious back- CP> pedalling Squeek, squeek! Nice to know we are still hobbyists. So Chris, when are you going to become a professional do you think? I thought you were. Seems like we are not shelling out enough. CP> incompetently QA'd version of the program might well be due to the CP> pressure that the market was applying but this is still no CP> justification for misleading the user group and the media. I`m a software QA manager. I can know a botchjob when I see one. AG> We am not trying to aim this release specifically at the professional AG> market CP> Nowhere in the press releases, the advertising blurb or indeed the CP> manual is that impression given. Quite the opposite infact. R3D> "creative computer artists, product designers, teachers and everyone R3D> interested in computer generated imagery will find @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2 a useful R3D> and unique tool." CP> So how many "amateur" teachers and product designers do you know? I CP> for one did not shell out cash which I can ill afford so that I can CP> spend my time doing research work for REALSOFT. I bought what CP> purported to be a "professional" or at least professionally produced, CP> package ready for use More back pedalling. They could have told us before that they did not consider us to be professional or deserving of professional software. Now, I`m sure they will do what they can do make it much better, and I`m glad, I just wish this had never happened. CP> Real 1.4 pro turbo was a professional package, aimed at CP> professionals. I don't think it was unreasonable of me to expect the CP> replacement program to be "as professional". Whilst it is admirable CP> that Realsoft decided not to just bolt on some new features but to CP> rebuild from the ground up the simple truth is that the "new CP> improved" version should work at least as well as it's predecessor It CP> doesn't, so in this respect they have failed spectacularly. Perhaps they should have called 2.xx @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.33 HOB SLOWMO? AG> This version is priced and meant for the general Amiga animator that AG> enjoys 3D @{"animation" link r3d2a} and wants a powerful program with which to AG> experiment. CP> Could you please explain the grand plan in more detail. CP> As I see it, Real Classic is now for the interested amateur and this CP> version (2.33)is for employees of Realsoft, masochists and the CP> gullible saps like me who believe what the read. When do we get the CP> "Real"Real v2 and how much are they going to sting us for it? The CP> idea of shelling out more loot to acquire the product that was CP> originally promised to me does not appeal. CP> Can you assure us that... CP> All registered REALv2 users will get a free upgrade to REALv2 PRO? CP> when it exists and that then the Beta test version be withdrawn. I do hope so. We are paying Realsoft to do LOTS of beta work for them. I hope the appreciate they hours we are putting in and OUR expertise. With my background I should be putting in for consultancy! I normally get paid for this type of thing. CP> Once again I must appologise for the tone of this message which is CP> not intended personally but which is due to my being "ropeable" with CP> impotent fury and frustration. They have dug a hole for themselves. I hope they know when to appease the crowd and don`t throw gasoline on the fire by trying to gets us to cough up even more to get what were lead to believe we were getting in the first place. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item212 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:31:40 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:31:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305271146.AA08544@zombie.oulu.fi> (from Esa Haapaniemi ) (at Thu, 27 May 1993 19:44:42 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hi Esa (Esa Haapaniemi), on May 27 you wrote: > Unfortunately it's not working correctly with current release. It saves only > part of the settings. Is that 2.33 - How surprising... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item213 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:33:10 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:33:10 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305271155.2.4815@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Fri, 28 May 1993 10:10:29 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hi CarmenR (CarmenR), on May 28 you wrote: > John, > > Nope, UNDO is not saved along with the rest of my environment in > S:real-startup. I have to go and manually turn it on each session. Of See Esa's answer - it should work that way, but doesn't... > course, I usually remember it turn it on when it's too late. :) Always the way... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item214 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:34:12 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:34:12 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305271154.1.4815@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Fri, 28 May 1993 10:22:34 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hi CarmenR (CarmenR), on May 28 you wrote: > So far I've learned that lightsamples helps your fuzzy-edged lightsources > [wall, line] be fuzzy, or fuzzier. Does it also enhance motion blur effects? > Someone else told me that the "Samples" they were referring to is in the > @{"animation" link r3d2a} Window. But it's actually "Smpl:" not "Samples" My mistake - I haven't read the manual all the way through properly John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item215 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:30:00 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:30:00 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: R3D DF> here are some things I would like to see: DF> DF> 1) Seperate the ability to see the view axis from mouse coordinates, DF> they are two different things and should be so selectable. CP> Quite agree. how much use is a 3/4 view of a parralel projection? ok CP> so it could be used for creating isometric game graphics but the CP> standard default in parallel mode sholub be scrolling the view CP> paralell to the input plane. the only way to do this is CP> VIEW/DISPLAY/POSITION which is needlessly awkward to use and doesn't CP> even have a keyboard shortcut. Um, am I getting the wrong end of the stick? I meant that when you try to get a viewable axis on a view via the drawing set the you also get mouse coordinates displayed, which is quite distracting when I really don`t want it. However I do agree with the above. DF> 2) Measuring system chokes on values such as .5, needs 0.5, silly CP> That, and things like the way it occasionally chucks you out to CP> workbench when saving convince me that many of the editor functions CP> were a last minute lash up. sort of bug you might expect in a piece CP> of noddy shareware not a professionally produced package. Also goes bang and crashes once in a while but I have been leaving bad bugs like that for others to report, I`m more concerned with usability. DF> 3) Render time taken info, so you can see what things make a render DF> slower or faster. CP> Fair enough, how hard could it be? though of course the new amigas CP> don't have a realtime clock to refer to. I don't know that this CP> should stop it though. this is the sort of detail that even PC CP> software ALWAYS manages to include as standard be it a screen saver CP> or a DTP mega package. Where are the user definable keys? how about CP> an on screen scientific calculator? why no log file option etc? OK CP> they aren't crucial but they are the sort of option one might CP> reasoably expect to be thrown in for good measure. @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} shows you the time taken to do a render, also beeps when a frame is done. New Amigas don`t have a realtime clock? Bad news. Anyway they still can count time in seconds and minutes, relative time if not absolute. User definable keys seem to be through RPL, very bad form. It would not be difficult to write a program to do it, but that really should be done by Realsoft. The lack of hotkeys for many functions and lack of hotkey labels on menus is UNFORGIVEABLE. DF> 4) Beep or execute a command after a scene has rendered CP> I daresay the reply to a lot of these winges will be " well you can CP> do it yourself with RPL and AREXX. yeah right, and then maybe next CP> year I might be able to get down to some modelling. I can see we're CP> going to have to go begging for help in the programming echo's Well I`m a programmer among other things and have no great problem with RPL, AREXX, C, C++, CANDO etc so probably will do lots of that stuff after I have read the manual properly. But we should not have to do this. And also although we can run RPL progs to do stuff, there seems to be no real hooks into the user interface so we cannot for example re-program what the menu commands do, that seems hardwired. Now if the menu commands were in RPL, then we could have some fun. DF> 5) If tool menu has too many icons it should grow a scrollbar, not just clip CP> Same old story , It's amateur hour, the editor hasn't been "finished" CP> (Sorry Vesa, no pun intended) a lot of it is just half baked gimicks CP> that don't live up to their potential e.g. the VIEW/RENDER/HEIRARCHY CP> option which ain't scrollable and doesn't offer editing options. CP> About as much use as a chocolate teapot and a far cry from the XTREE CP> type editor it should have been. Yep. VIEW/RENDER/HEIRACHY mad me laugh, it so sad. What we should have is a sideways select heirachy thing, with drag and drop etc. If only they had apologised in the manual and said, yes, we know its lame, we will fix it. Hopefully they will, but it would give me a lot more faith if they had acknowledged the weeknesses in the manual and before they shipped with all the hype. If only they had got some of us in the UK to beta it! DF> 6) How do you flash a wireframe as Help key is attched to AmigaGuide CP> If they told you everything it would spoil the fun. :-) CP> NB Actually I don't find this in the sightest bit funny . Why could they not attach it to TAB? ALL functions should be redefinable, not just some. Once again there are not enough hooks into RPL. Perhaps we have to write a prog to get the current object, change its wireframe colour, refresh it, then change it back? Slick eh? DF> 7) Multi select on a menu does not work if the same item is multi DF> selected but does work from the tool window CP> And so on and so on... DF> Chris, I did read all of your speech. And I agree, its so flexible, DF> but until we learn how to juggle jelly CP> Nice line. DF> it would be nice to have some more 1.4 like feautures. ; Key that DF> brings up measuring window when needs be would be VERY useful. CP> Maybe the measuring window comes into its own when you're up to your CP> armpits in RPL but as an editing tool its a pretty good sight screen. CP> I'd maybe keep it as an option for those who like it (deathly CP> silence) but then see a return to the old coordinate system WHICH CP> DIDN'T NEED CHANGING!!! IT DID THE JOB VERY WELL READ MY LIPS (not CP> you Dino) Like you, I think they changed stuff that did not need changing. Yes, ADD to the system but don`t change old stuff unless there is a reason, there was none. CP> Am going to lay down in a dark room for a little while now. Lets hope CP> that a bit of good old "pommy winging" does some good. Obviously the CP> Beta testers were far too easly pleased and worried that criticism CP> might offend. Mmm, I`m sure they did their best, but obviously something went wrong. CP> Chris John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item216 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 08:54:57 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:54:57 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Previous Posts I did not write them, I just fowarded them from the Real_3D fido echo - they make interesting reading and make lots of valid points - comments please (especially from Realsoft, their betatesters (NOT!) and Activa's quality assurance department)... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item217 From dino@alex.com Fri May 28 17:59:45 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 28 May 93 10:51:31 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... > From: Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: ok... > Reply -- > > Philippe, > [ stuff deleted ] > R3D2 does > chew up memory like it is going out of style though... > > Shayne Have you seen the memory settings stuff in the menu for the render settings? With this you can limit how much memory it will use. Would this help? Dino. @endnode @node item218 From dino@alex.com Fri May 28 18:00:18 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 28 May 93 10:54:28 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 > From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Help2 > > Thanks for your help. I knew about the IFF->altitute mesh feature.. I just > wanted the outline of the bitmap as a spline. The feature that converts a > bitmap into a bunch of spheres might do, but it's kind of an awkward way of > doing it. Especially when I work with very large bitmaps for the utimate in > quality. I could possible convert to sheres and then later trace a spline > curve using the spheres as a guide [goofy! But it might work!]. > > CarmenR - Crazed Artist > CarmenR@cup.portal.com > Yep, you could also use prodraw to trace the object, or one of its utils, and then get @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } to convert it, but yes, you are right, this is missing as a direct function. Well spotted. Dino. @endnode @node item219 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Fri May 28 18:20:38 1993 Date: 28 May 1993 10:45:00 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: Real/Imagine ray trace test Return-Receipt-To: "Oxley David" To: "Real3D" Last night I created the following simple scene in both @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.33 and @{"Imagine" link imagine}2.0 (I used @{"Imagine" link imagine}'s ground and sphere primitives). The results surprised me: - 35% reflective black and white chequered ground plane; - 87% reflective light grey spheres, larger one above ground plane, smaller one resting on ground slightly behind larger one; - 2 shadow casting light sources, one 64% strength of the other, brighter source casting pinkish light, weaker source casting light grey light; - DCTV format, 4 bit planes, resolution 736x566, moderate antialiasing, full ray trace. I tried to organise the orientation to be the same in both cases, so that each renderer had roughly the same amount of calculating to do. Timing results: @{"Imagine" link imagine} 8min 43sec; @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 12min 30sec. (I have an A2000 with 28MHz RCS 040, 21MB RAM and DCTV of course.) Aesthetically, the @{"Imagine" link imagine} image was more pleasing; the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } result looked too 'perfect'. I guess that as I become better acquainted with Real, I'll see why the scene took 43% longer to render the way I set it up, and how I could have set it up to finish in 10 seconds ;^) This begs the question "What happens to the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } rendering times when you add motion blur, soft edged shadows and B-spline meshes?" Yeah, I know people say it's fruitless making these sort of comparisons, but I was inquisitive, and thought I'd post my results anyway. Some further testing might involve rendering in other modes and comparing again. You could argue that a complex scene built in each package would be a better test, because it would pit the benefit of Real's CSGs, boolean operations and meshes against @{"Imagine" link imagine}'s polygon method. Hmmm, I might try that one day. David Oxley. @endnode @node item220 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 28 05:15:00 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 09:15:00 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: ok... Reply -- Dino, Yes, I do know about the memory settings, but setting it for less memory forces it to use slower algorithms, and doesn't always alleviate the problem. I understand your point, and as I become more familiar with the package, I'm sure I'll pick up little tips and tricks about what works and what doesn't... Cheers, Shayne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 18:42:18 +0800 > From: Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: ok... > Reply -- > > Philippe, @endnode @node item221 From mark@westford.ccur.com Fri May 28 07:13:47 1993 To: Oxley David Cc: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au, mark@westford.ccur.com Subject: Re: Real/Imagine ray trace test In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 28 May 93 18:51:48 +0800. <199305281020.AA03292@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Date: Fri, 28 May 93 11:13:47 EDT From: Mark Thompson >Yeah, I know people say it's fruitless making these sort of comparisons, but I >was inquisitive, and thought I'd post my results anyway. Some further testing >might involve rendering in other modes and comparing again. If anyone feels they are up to it, I can email the archive I sent to Alexandre Rousseau (R3D beta tester) which includes a reasonably complex test scene with image texture maps. You may redesign the test object using other primitives, I only ask that you post your results with the polygonal render times as well since that is an apples to apples comparison and the only one I am truly interested in. Since this represents a very small piece of some of my work in progress, I thought it would be fairly representative of a real world situation. Warning: this test is not for the faint of heart or the weak machines. The scene file (it is in Sculpt format for portability) is 2MB not including the textures. The entire archive is compressed down to 823K. When uuencoded, it splits up into 12 email files each just under 100K. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @endnode @node item222 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Fri May 28 23:45:50 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Fri, 28 May 93 10:12:43 CET In-Reply-To: <9305270933.AA00890@woody.alex.com> (from Dino Fancellu ) (at Thu, 27 May 1993 17:35:52 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hi Dino (Dino Fancellu), in <9305270933.AA00890@woody.alex.com> on May 27 you wrote: > > How does one use the font -> object converter? > > Load up the special tool environment. The load up the fontloader through that. > Then pick the font you want by specifiying the directory too look at You might also like to look at the program PowerFonts which converts AGFA outline fonts to Real objects. A demo version is available from the ACTIVA support BBS. I will see whether I can put it up on a ftp site.. -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl AQUA BOOGIE BABY !! (Psycoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop) - Parliament @endnode @node item223 From dino@alex.com Sat May 29 00:40:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 28 May 93 17:22:30 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hello Paul, you said. > Hi Dino (Dino Fancellu), in <9305270933.AA00890@woody.alex.com> on May 27 you wrote: > > > > How does one use the font -> object converter? > > > > Load up the special tool environment. The load up the fontloader through that. > > Then pick the font you want by specifiying the directory too look at > > You might also like to look at the program PowerFonts which converts AGFA > outline fonts to Real objects. A demo version is available from the ACTIVA > support BBS. I will see whether I can put it up on a ftp site.. That would be VERY useful. What is demo about it? What about Compugraphic? Can you remind me what programs come with AGFA fonts or where I could get some if need be? If Activa have received my registration I may try the BBS tonight. Dino. @endnode @node item224 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Fri May 28 14:54:22 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 18:54:22 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: All these replies In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 27 May 1993 15:43:54 +0800 >Brendan! Why did you set the list up so 'r'eplies went to the >whole list? Can't we just have 'g'roup replies to the >list and 'r'eplies going to the sender? List-serv is quite >capable of doing this. > >What do others on the list think? > >Christopher. Well, I think that replies going back to the list as a default is good because it keeps the list hopping with information. If anyone wants to private reply to someone's particular message, I guess there is a way to set it up via List-Serv as you described. -Charlie @endnode @node item225 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Fri May 28 15:02:28 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 19:02:28 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 27 May 1993 16:25:06 +0800 >How does one use Motion blur? According to the manual, you simply turn on >Motion blur in the attributes, and it'll work as long as "Samples" is higher >than 0 in the render settings. Where is Samples? I see it nowhere. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Carmen, no! Check page 5.20 of the Tutorial. I'd check it in the program itself, but dongle (ARGH) is disconnected right now (and I'm not going to hot connect! :) UNDO still seems to be broken, even in version 2.33 that I have right now. >Font => Object converter Hmmm... I think I tried it once, but it didn't work as I deleted the fonts. I'll figure it out again (that is, how I got it working) and post about it. >2-bitplane IFF to objects. I see a possibility of hacking a converter with RPL. Use the Pixel=>Object tool. Save out the resultant object as an RPL ASCII file. Write up a converter (I'm going to use C) to change the picture to a polygon. Obviously, this method is limited to solid filled shapes (ie fonts!) @endnode @node item226 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Sat May 29 07:39:02 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Help2 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sat, 29 May 1993 05:39:02 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305281622.AA08644@woody.alex.com> from "Dino Fancellu" at May 29, 93 00:40:40 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > That would be VERY useful. What is demo about it? What about Compugraphic? > Can you remind me what programs come with AGFA fonts or where I could get Isn't Compugraphic fonts the same as AGFA fonts? /Peter @endnode @node item227 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Sat May 29 07:38:01 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: All these replies To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sat, 29 May 1993 05:38:01 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "charles lee" at May 29, 93 06:48:55 am Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se > > Well, I think that replies going back to the list as a default > is good because it keeps the list hopping with information. > > If anyone wants to private reply to someone's particular message, > I guess there is a way to set it up via List-Serv as you described. It is not the rule for mailing lists. You're gonna get an awful lot of vacation mails from me when I go for a vacation in June... /Peter @endnode @node item228 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Sat May 29 19:54:14 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 21:03:04 MET In-Reply-To: (from charles lee ) (at Mon, 24 May 1993 03:50:18 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: UNDO Hello charles (charles lee). On May 24, you have written : > >Is it just me, or does @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 NOT save the UNDO ACTIVE setting when > >you save your environment? I'm using v2.30 > > Yep... The latest version I have 2.33 doesn't save the Undo Active > setting either. I guess they'll get around to fixing that; that is > trivial compared to some other things I've asked them to look at. The UNDO flag is saved with the project. It should be great to have it saved in the environment (default), though... Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item229 From swhitenn@reach.com Fri May 28 13:33:57 1993 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 17:33:57 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) Subject: Misc. thoughts Hey all, It seems that lately a lot of people on this list have been disappointed with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } version 2 (R3D2). Personally, I really like the program. I think the interface is great. It allows you to really customize to suit your own personal tastes, which is what it really boils down to. Although I haven't used the new LW, I don't think any packages for the Amiga can simulate Tornados, Boiling water, etc in a matter of minutes. Of course, I could be wrong, but my point is that R3D2 is a powerful program that will take time to master, and also take time to mature. Few programs are bugless on their first release. Personally, I'm willing to give RealSoft the benefit of the doubt. I think they show an interest in supporting their product, unlike some other companies... Some of the bugs described on this list should not still be in the software (the environments not getting saved), but I think that they will be fixed shortly. I am glad that there is a lot of activity on this list, but I'd like to see some more useful information being passed around. Perhaps someone could narrate a project they have set up, for example. Tips and tricks, etc. I'm not about to tell anyone what the list should and should not be used for, I'm just stating my opinion like anyboby else. On another note, if Adam Godfrey is on this list, could you please register me for Conference 8 of your BBS so I can get the updated version of R3D2....I know you got my registration card because I am registered for conference 2... Thanks all! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item230 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 00:09:36 1993 30 May 93 8:01 BST Date: Sun, 30 May 93 00:09:36 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305282133.AA03787@ad0.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) (at Sun, 30 May 1993 01:17:43 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Misc. thoughts Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), on May 30 you wrote: > It seems that lately a lot of people on this list have > been disappointed with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } version 2 (R3D2). Personally, I > really like the program. I think the interface is great. It > allows you to really customize to suit your own personal tastes, > which is what it really boils down to. Although I haven't used > the new LW, I don't think any packages for the Amiga can simulate > Tornados, Boiling water, etc in a matter of minutes. Of course, I > could be wrong, but my point is that R3D2 is a powerful program > that will take time to master, and also take time to mature. Few Yes, but that's what a year of betatesting was supposed to be for... many things (such as extra points on 2D objects) should NEVER have come out on the released program > show an interest in supporting their product, unlike some other > companies... Then they should really have got some decent testers! > programs are bugless on their first release. Personally, I'm No, but nor do I expect that three UK users to come up with *seven* pages of bugs and mistakes within one week of having the program. > willing to give RealSoft the benefit of the doubt. I think they They'll have to - I've just seen 3DS on a PC, and that can really kick ass, and it's not a true raytracer. Because of the poor first release, people will remember all the things that are wrong, rather than "Wow! Isn't all this incredible!" > Some of the bugs described on this list should not still > be in the software (the environments not getting saved), but I > think that they will be fixed shortly. I am glad that there is a > lot of activity on this list, but I'd like to see some more useful > information being passed around. Perhaps someone could narrate a > project they have set up, for example. Tips and tricks, etc. I'm > not about to tell anyone what the list should and should not be > used for, I'm just stating my opinion like anyboby else. It will happen once there are more people who are familiar with the program, and if Activa get their act together and release more utilities and demo datafiles to the nets. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item231 From pockets@netcom.com Sat May 29 08:08:18 1993 From: pockets@netcom.com (Sean C. Cunningham) Subject: Re: R3D To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sat, 29 May 93 15:08:18 PDT In-Reply-To: <9305280830.AA005hp@heights.demon.co.uk>; from "John Shiali" at May 28, 93 5:26 pm You point me to software that doesn't have bugs. I have yet to dive into my copy of v2 thuroughly as of yet, but I fully expected to find bugs. I use hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of software every day and it has bugs...I'm sure that the folks at realsoft are much easier to work with on getting bugs fixed than Wavefront. You feel like you're not getting your money's worth? Go spend $60,000 on a package like SoftImage, wich core dumps quite often from what I've been told, and see how you feel then. -- @endnode @node item232 From hv77115@cs.tut.fi Sun May 30 16:49:25 1993 Date: Sun, 30 May 1993 13:49:25 +0300 From: Viitala Hannu Juhani To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Please remove me from this list ! --- hv77115@cs.tut.fi @endnode @node item233 From dino@alex.com Sun May 30 22:53:30 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 30 May 93 15:57:07 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Well, this is really about the BBS. I've logged into the BBS. But can only leave messages and log out. Also my messages are not replied to as of yet. Is there no one on the BBS during the weekend? If that is so it would be nice if the BBS said so. Also the menu I get has file areas and messages areas on it but do nothing, which is rather misleading. Any help about this from anyone would be appreciated, thanks. Dino. @endnode @node item234 From ecker@cps.msu.edu Sun May 30 10:05:01 1993 id AA23189; Sun, 30 May 93 14:05:02 EDT From: ecker@cps.msu.edu Subject: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Sun, 30 May 93 14:05:01 EDT In-Reply-To: <9305300009.AA005ii@heights.demon.co.uk>; from "John Shiali" at May 31, 93 12:42 am To whom it may concern: I subscribed to this group thinking it was a multi-platform group, but since it's amiga based, and I use Sun's up here at school, I'd like to un-subscribe the group. Any info or help would be appreciated..... -Joe @endnode @node item235 From Tomasz.Piatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz Tue Jun 1 00:08:47 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 12:08:47 +1200 From: Tomasz Piatek Subject: non FPU version of R3D2 Can someone tell me for sure if there exists a non-FPU version of R3D2. I asked a few people and they've told me that there is only FPU version. cheers, Tomek @endnode @node item236 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 30 10:36:40 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Font Converter Lines: 7 Date: Sun, 30 May 93 17:36:40 PDT Charles, I, too found the RPL font converter, but couldn't get it to work worth beans. Some of this @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } program really seems slapped together. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item237 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 30 10:34:11 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Motion Blur Lines: 11 Date: Sun, 30 May 93 17:34:11 PDT Charles, > Check page 5.20 of the Tutorial. Ah! There it is! Silly me, I thought I could learn how to use something by looking it up in the referance manual. After so many of the tutorials did not work for me, I got frustrated and vowed not to use it again. Thanks for pointing this out to me. Latez! CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item238 From eha@zombie.oulu.fi Mon May 31 11:18:46 1993 From: eha@zombie.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 08:18:46 +0300 (EET DST) In-Reply-To: <9305301805.AA23189@dead.cps.msu.edu> from "ecker@cps.msu.edu" at May 31, 93 02:01:20 am > To whom it may concern: Not me ;) > I subscribed to this group thinking it was a multi-platform > group, but since it's amiga based, and I use Sun's up here at school, But maybe it'll be multiplatform group as soon as the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } is available for the others too. What kind of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } are you using in your SUN that made you intertested in this group in the beginning ? > I'd like to un-subscribe the group. Any info or help would be > appreciated..... Don't hesitate, but if you must, then send the unsubscribe mail to postmaster... > -Joe Esa @endnode @node item239 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sun May 30 16:22:43 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 Date: Sun, 30 May 93 23:22:43 PDT Tomek, It's true. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 does not currently support non-FPU Amigas. Two versions are included. FPU and 040. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item240 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Sun May 30 23:17:27 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 3:17:27 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Font Converter In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 31 May 1993 12:49:34 +0800 > I, too found the RPL font converter, but couldn't get it to work worth >beans. Some of this @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } program really seems slapped together. Yes... R3D's has a very open approach through the use of RPL which is both a curse and a blessing, because RPL confuses a lot of people... @endnode @node item241 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 31 07:46:32 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 07:46:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <199305310008.AA03733@paramount.comp.vuw.ac.nz> (from Tomasz Piatek ) (at Mon, 31 May 1993 12:39:42 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 Hi Tomasz (Tomasz Piatek), on May 31 you wrote: > Can someone tell me for sure if there exists a non-FPU version of R3D2. > I asked a few people and they've told me that there is only FPU version. There wasn't one in my package. In fact, the section in hardware requirements lists a math coprocessor... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item242 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 31 07:44:45 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 07:44:45 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305301805.AA23189@dead.cps.msu.edu> (from ecker@cps.msu.edu) (at Mon, 31 May 1993 02:02:48 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? Hi ecker (ecker), on May 31 you wrote: > I subscribed to this group thinking it was a multi-platform > group, but since it's amiga based, and I use Sun's up here at school, > I'd like to un-subscribe the group. Any info or help would be > appreciated..... I should think it will be multiplatform once the other versions have been released! John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item243 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 31 07:43:46 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 07:43:46 GMT In-Reply-To: <9305292208.AA02889@netcom2.netcom.com> (from "Sean C. Cunningham" ) (at Mon, 31 May 1993 00:44:08 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: R3D Hi Sean (Sean C. Cunningham), on May 31 you wrote: > You feel like you're not getting your money's worth? Go spend $60,000 on a > package like SoftImage, wich core dumps quite often from what I've been told, > and see how you feel then. That's not the point - just because other people do it, it doesn't mean it's right - that's the sort of thing I would have expected form the mid eighties, not the mid nineties. Software companies in the professional fields are expected to test their products intensly before sale, offer local telephone and on site, (and in some cases 24 hour) support, free upgrades and patches (none of this "we might release it sometime but, we won't tell you when, and we're going to charge you for it, or you'll have to make international phone calls") I've worked for companies where bugged software has made us insist (and get) from the supplier companies - free fixes - replacement machines sent abroad - multiple engineers sent abroad - software and machines *that did not run as contracted to* decommisioned and deinstalled before the start of legal action to recover losses - payment for time wasted by our staff on these products. Activa wouldn't last a second in such an environment, and I'm not suggesting that they have those kinds of resources, but for a professional program, some of the bugs that got through have been *shocking* - there have been *three* upgrade versions in the two months since release! Doesn't that say that there should have been a bit more research to the those bugs so they could be fixed on the first release ? @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.42 was a slick, professional program with *many* excellent features - I expected the new one to be just as professionally put together, but I (and others) have been somewhat disappointed. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item244 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Sun May 30 23:19:45 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 3:19:45 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Motion Blur In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 31 May 1993 12:53:49 +0800 > Ah! There it is! Silly me, I thought I could learn how to use something >by looking it up in the referance manual. After so many of the tutorials did >not work for me, I got frustrated and vowed not to use it again. Thanks for >pointing this out to me. Latez! :) After working through/skimming all the tutorials, I went through the entire manual a second time with a ruler and a red pen, delinitating important points and reorganizing the manual for my personal tastes. I'm going to put stickers on the sides of the pages to make things really easy to flip though. -Charlie @endnode @node item245 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Jun 1 05:35:51 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Unsubscribing Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 21:35:51 +0800 (WST) Greetings all, Sorry that I didnt respond to this earlier, but I have been getting large amounts of mail everyday.. To unsubscribe to the list post a message to listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au with a message like unsubscribe real3d That will do it... -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item246 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Jun 1 06:29:00 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Please Ignote Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 22:29:00 +0800 (WST) Testing Testing 1 2 3... -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item247 From ecker@cps.msu.edu Mon May 31 07:31:01 1993 id AA25222; Mon, 31 May 93 11:31:02 EDT From: ecker@cps.msu.edu Subject: Re: How do you UNSUBSCRIBE!!!???? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 31 May 93 11:31:01 EDT In-Reply-To: <9305310518.AA25846@zombie.oulu.fi>; from "Esa Haapaniemi" at May 31, 93 1:19 pm ---stuff deleted--- > > But maybe it'll be multiplatform group as soon as the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } is available > for the others too. What kind of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } are you using in your SUN that > made you intertested in this group in the beginning ? ---- Well, I had been playing around with SunPhigs but that's really rudimentary, everything is manual, and Sun is no longer supporting Phigs under their new OS... (I think. :) ) Thanks.... ----- > > Esa > ----- -Joe @endnode @node item248 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon May 31 19:07:43 1993 Date: Mon, 31 May 93 19:07:43 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Dongle disables other software I've got my dongle on a two way splitter so I can have my joystick plugged in - it stops Delphine's FlashBack from working properly until it's unplugged John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item249 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue Jun 1 04:23:58 1993 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 08:23:58 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) Subject: Tutorials Greetings, I have an idea that I'd like to share with this list. How about creating a tutorial package for R3D2, similar to the one Steve Worley has created for @{"Imagine" link imagine} (except PD, not commercial). Different people could contribute different things (whatever their expertise or forte may be). I don't have much time on my hands right now, so I am just offering this as an idea. Perhaps some of the students on the list will have some time not that classes are over?! Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback on this idea... Although the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } manual is not bad, I find it often jumps into things like u and v (vector stuff) without really explaining much to the casual user. Perhaps a gentler approach could be created. There could be sections on modelling, animation types, tips & tricks, etc. Maybe the package could contain example materials, macros, objects, etc as well as text. Does anyone know of an internet site where the stuff could be sent and collected (volunteers?!). I'm only connected to an 'outernet' site (mail only). Seems to me like a good idea, but enough of my rambling. :) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item250 From watters@cranel.com Tue Jun 1 06:36:05 1993 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 10:36:05 EDT From: watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: R3D > Software companies in the professional fields are expected to test their > products intensly before sale, offer local telephone and on site, (and in some > cases 24 hour) support, free upgrades and patches (none of this "we might > release it sometime but, we won't tell you when, and we're going to > charge you for it, or you'll have to make international phone calls") I wonder how many people that are complaining about the bugs, are the same people that were complaining about how long it took to be released. We are ignoring the biggest issue here anyways. After getting a chance to take a good look at R3D2, I can say that it's interface is nothing short of amazing, it's procedural @{"animation" link r3d2a} support is ground breaking, and it's AREXX/RPL features are a gift from the heavens.... but it is a DOG!!! DEE.. OH.. GEE.. Dog, and therefore unusable (by me) as a production renderer. .__ __ David ~ \_--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering Congradulations Emerson Fittipaldi, Chevrolet, and Penske!!! -=+ 1993 Indianapolis 500 Winners +=- @endnode @node item251 From pockets@netcom.com Tue Jun 1 10:39:25 1993 From: pockets@netcom.com (Sean C. Cunningham) Subject: Re: R3D To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 17:39:25 PDT In-Reply-To: <9305310743.AA005j0@heights.demon.co.uk>; from "John Shiali" at May 31, 93 3:56 pm > > That's not the point - just because other people do it, it doesn't > mean it's right - that's the sort of thing I would have expected form > the mid eighties, not the mid nineties. > But you miss my point. The fact is, $20,000 - $60,000 (or more) software is buggy. Why should $500 software be any better. I'm not saying that I like bugs, but they're a fact of life and something you have to deal with. Alias, SoftImage, Wavefront, TDI, Renderman, Parallax, etc. all have bugs...some minor, some major. > Software companies in the professional fields are expected to test their > products intensly before sale, offer local telephone and on site, (and in some > cases 24 hour) support, free upgrades and patches (none of this "we might > release it sometime but, we won't tell you when, and we're going to > charge you for it, or you'll have to make international phone calls") > I see that you haven't dealt with Alias. They provide very little of the above. And they have a very poor attitude when it comes to suggestions for the future of the software, unless you happen to work for ILM :) > I've worked for companies where bugged software has made us insist > (and get) from the supplier companies - free fixes - replacement machines sent > abroad - multiple engineers sent abroad - software and machines *that > did not run as contracted to* decommisioned and deinstalled before the > start of legal action to recover losses - payment for time wasted by > our staff on these products. > Sometimes this happens. We've had a similar incident. But it's a shame that you would have to make threats, idle or otherwise to get action taken. > Activa wouldn't last a second in such an environment, and I'm not > suggesting that they have those kinds of resources, but for a > professional program, some of the bugs that got through have been > *shocking* - there have been *three* upgrade versions in the two > months since release! Doesn't that say that there should have been a > bit more research to the those bugs so they could be fixed on the first > release ? > * "Shocking" bugs? Try reseting your frame range when running in text mode in Preview...it'll core dump. You should be glad that there have been three, that means that Activa is on the ball. How long did it take Impulse to release v2 of @{"Imagine" link imagine} after v1 was released? It had many bugs and still does. I won't touch that piece of code ever again. > @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.42 was a slick, professional program with *many* excellent > features - I expected the new one to be just as professionally put > together, but I (and others) have been somewhat disappointed. > I guess we have different ideas as to what "professional" quality means. I would consider v1.42 "hobby" class. I couldn't consider anything that does not give the user interactive, editable motion graphs for every channel of motion professional in any sense, no matter how many bells and whistles are tacked on. Without this feature you don't have enough control over motion. Also, the fact that you cannot even edit your @{"animation" link r3d2a} once you've told it to generate the in-betweens, had chills running up and down my spine. * = for those that aren't familiar with Preview, it's the choreographer that is part of Wavefront's TAV (The Advanced Visualizer) > > John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk > FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 > @endnode @node item252 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Wed Jun 2 09:26:36 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 10:48:43 CET Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Activa International) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: complaints It has come to our attention a number of people are posting complaints concerning R3D2 which could be solved by using legal copies, reading=20 the manual or asking Activa for an answer. As NONE of these complaints are directed at either Realsoft or Activa and none of these contains specific bugreport information there is=ve been nice. I've tried using Marble, mirror and wood with varying success. My guess is that I'm not providing the right parameters. For example, the wood floor I created didn't look anywhere near as nice as the one in the bowling alley. The Canadian support BBS currently doesn't have any materials for R3D2 (correct me if I'm wrong). Thanks and happy rendering. Shayne White swhitenn@reach.com @endnode @node item307 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue Jun 8 06:06:11 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 10:06:11 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) Subject: Mirrored fonts Hi, I'm creating a logo using the Tube fonts that come with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2. I mapped the mirror material on them (used default mapping), and set up an environment picture, and enabled environment mapping in the render settings. The fonts show up as red (the environment pic is a blue sky w/ clouds). They are shiny and appear somewhat like glass, but they aren't reflecting the environment like I thought they would. And I am rendering in the normal mode with one light wall. I'm probably making a simple mistake...does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Shayne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item308 From seanw@codex.com.au Thu Jun 10 02:34:38 1993 From: Sean Woodhouse Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 16:34:38 +1000 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Read 3D v2 on an A3000 Hi everyone, I was wondering if someone out there could tell me how @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } performs on an A3000. I'm planning to buy one with 6Meg RAM and a 24bit colour card. Actual rendering times don't really bother me because I can leave the thing on all day while I'm at work, and it's only a hobby so there's no deadlines. But what I do need to know is how quickly wireframe animations can be made and how easy modelling is. I'm also planning on buying a >= 17" monitor in the future, does anyone have any comments. Thanks Sean --------------------------------------------------------- Sean Woodhouse Software Engineer Codex Software Development Pty Ltd, Melbourne AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 3 696 2490 Facimile: +61 3 696 6757 Internet : seanw@codex.com.au Street: 222 Park St, South Melbourne, VIC 3205 AUSTRALIA Postal: PO Box 293, Albert Park, VIC 3206 AUSTRALIA --------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item309 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Jun 9 22:59:03 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Real 3D object sites To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 14:59:03 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <199305151744.AA24862@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU> from "Nikola Vukovljak" at May 16, 93 01:43:42 am Greetings all, > Can anyone tell me where @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } object sites may be ? > > Also, is this mailing list being or going to be compiled into archives like > the @{"Imagine" link imagine} Mailing list? I suppose that I could do that... I spend so much time trying to simply keep the number of mail message less than 100 that it shouldnt be much more wasted time... > I am a Co-ordinator of a Graphics Sig here in Australia and would like to > be able to place archives of this list on our BBS. So is this being done? > Nik. > nvukovlj@ucc.su.OZ.AU I would like to extend this concept slightly further... Is anyone interested in creating some objects for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } (v2 we may as well standardize). My idea is that we put togther a list of all objects that we would like and people can simply pick and choose the items that they want to create. The more I work with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } the more I realise that having a set of objects to simply grab as needed makes for a much more productive session. Suggested Furnishings - Chairs Tables Wall Hangings Vases Shelving Cupboard Television Curtains etc... Obscure - Blobs swirls Animals - Well there are lots of them.... (I just dont want to make those ones.. ;-) Materials could also be included in a list.... Put forward some suggestions for some suggestions for object heirachy. -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item310 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Wed Jun 9 17:35:15 1993 Date: 9 Jun 1993 10:28:45 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: Speed of optimised Real40 To: "Real3D" Further to a chat with Dino Fancellu, I ran a test last night on my A1500, 28MHz RCS 040, 20MB 32bit, 1MB chip, 60MBHD, PAL DCTV to substantiate the performance claims of the optimised 040 of Real2 version over the 020/030 version. To quote from the Real manual: "The special 68040 optimised program version has been tested to be up to eight times faster in rendering than the 68030 version running equal clock frequency." I rendered a Normal (ie full ray trace) image to my DCTV at 736x566, antialiasing 2, other settings at their defaults. The scene comprised two chrome spheres, one on and one above a reflective black and white infinite tiled floor, with 2 lights, one at 60% strength of the other. Test results: Version Render Time 2.31 020/030 15.0 min 2.31 040 14.5 min 2.33 040 14.5 min (just to see if 2.33 gave improvement over 2.31) I had to use v2.31 for the comparison because I didn't download the 2.33 020/030 update from the BBS. Well there you have it. Conclusive proof that the optimised version of Real is an astounding ... err, how can I put it ... 3% faster than the unoptimised version. Just in case you think I should be comparing the 020/030 version running on a 68030 CPU with the 040 version running on a 68040 CPU at the same clock speeds, the results of that comparison (my 28MHz 040 versus Dino's 25MHz 68030 (A3000)) are as follows: Version Render Time 2.33 020/030 30.0 min 2.33 040 14.5 min So, absolutely conclusive proof that the optimised version is, well, twice as fast. What happened to the 'eight times faster' claim, hmmm? What scene showed the factor 8 improvement I wonder? I'm a bit disappointed about the dismal speed-up on an 040 :( Either figure, 3% or 2x isn't exactly worth boasting about. I can only hope that 2.34 delivers the promised eight-fold performance gain, although I'd settle for more :) Regards, David Oxley, Logica UK Ltd. @endnode @node item311 From dino@alex.com Wed Jun 9 19:34:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 12:08:29 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Materials in R3D2 > From @gate.demon.co.uk:real3d@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Jun 9 07:12:43 1993 > From: Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston > Subject: Materials in R3D2 > I have used the Essence package by Steve Worley (for @{"Imagine" link imagine}) and > I'm wondering if he plans to port some of his work to R3D2. >From what I hear, no. He is reported as saying that the RPL textures are too slow. They don`t seem too speedy to me. Dino. @endnode @node item312 From dino@alex.com Wed Jun 9 19:35:54 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 12:16:23 BST From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read 3D v2 on an A3000 > From: Sean Woodhouse > Subject: Read 3D v2 on an A3000 > Hi everyone, > > I was wondering if someone out there could tell me how @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } performs on an A3000. I'm > planning to buy one with 6Meg RAM and a 24bit colour card. Actual rendering times don't > really bother me because I can leave the thing on all day while I'm at work, and it's only a > hobby so there's no deadlines. But what I do need to know is how quickly wireframe > animations can be made and how easy modelling is. I'm also planning on buying a >= 17" > monitor in the future, does anyone have any comments. > > Thanks > > Sean Its very easy to make wireframe animations very quickly, for example to move a cube along a path for 50 frames takes about 25 seconds for me. If you want slightly better drafts even draft mode is very fast. Modelling is very easy and amazingly powerful. You will love it. I have a 16" Eizo 9080i, its very nice. Try to go for an Eizo, they are very high quality, low emission. Dino. @endnode @node item313 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 9 17:08:27 1993 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 17:08:27 GMT In-Reply-To: <199306090659.AA05339@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> (from Brendan Langoulant ) (at Wed, 9 Jun 1993 15:02:29 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real 3D object sites Hi Brendan (Brendan Langoulant), on Jun 9 you wrote: > I would like to extend this concept slightly further... Is anyone > interested in creating some objects for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } (v2 we may as well > standardize). I have some things from 1.42 tutorials and stuff, but most people do not want to rease their objects - and you run the risk of being unoriginal (like using sound samples that have already been in other people's records) - Generally, it is a good idea and we have the beginnings of it on the UK support BBS... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item314 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 9 17:12:39 1993 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 17:12:39 GMT In-Reply-To: <199306090935.AA07329@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> (from Oxley David ) (at Wed, 9 Jun 1993 17:39:27 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Speed of optimised Real40 Hi Oxley (Oxley David), on Jun 9 you wrote: > Further to a chat with Dino Fancellu, I ran a test last night on my A1500, > 28MHz RCS 040, 20MB 32bit, 1MB chip, 60MBHD, PAL DCTV to substantiate the > performance claims of the optimised 040 of Real2 version over the 020/030 > version. Problem with this is it gets translated through the dctv_r3d.library (which I belive then talks to the dctv.library) before getting to the display device - this MUST be a bottleneck - try it with a 24 bit render to disk, and let me know.... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item315 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 9 16:09:52 1993 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 16:09:52 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306080953.AA008c2@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Activa International ) (at Tue, 8 Jun 1993 23:07:16 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Question from Andy Hi Activa (Activa International), on Jun 8 you wrote: > John, could you stop posting other peoples messages here.. this has been > answered to Andy on the ACTIVA support BBS.. This was a general request for help from others, as Andy doesn't have access to usenet, and would be of use to others having the same problems, I crosposted it here from another net alltogether - or is this mailing list now censored/moderated, and if so are you doing that job? Does that include things like tutorials and hints and tips, or are you saying that you just want me not to post bad things about Real? Are you speaking for Activa in this respect, and if not, do they know you are applying that kind of pressure to another registered user? Enquiring minds want to know! John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item316 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 9 17:04:13 1993 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 17:04:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306081406.AA12844@ad0.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) (at Wed, 9 Jun 1993 13:51:07 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Mirrored fonts Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), on Jun 9 you wrote: > in the normal mode with one light wall. I'm probably making > a simple mistake...does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? This may sound silly, but what colour is the light? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item317 From swhitenn@reach.com Wed Jun 9 07:07:08 1993 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 11:07:08 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Read 3D v2 on an A30 Reply -- Sean, R3D2 should perform nicely on a 3000. However, for serious projects, 6 megs of RAM may not be enough. As far as monitors go, I'd at least take a look at an Idek 17". I'm going to get one shortly. They even scan down to 15kHz, so you can use them with the Amiga's native modes.... Shayne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 14:34:46 +0800 Hi everyone, I was wondering if someone out there could tell me how @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } performs on an A3000. I'm planning to buy one with 6Meg RAM and a 24bit colour card. Actual rendering times don't really bother me because I can leave the thing on all day while I'm at work, and it's only a hobby so there's no deadlines. But what I do need to know is how quickly wireframe @endnode @node item318 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:45:18 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:05:59 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: C_TOROID mystery Hello Dino (Dino Fancellu). On Jun 3, you have written : > There appears to be a an RPL function called C_TOROID. It is not > documented, as far as I can find. Where did you find it ? In @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }'s executable ? > P.S. Is anyone getting these messages I send out? The list seems to have > been a bit quite lately. Yes, Dino, no problems. People are quite now, because they've all told about their first impressions, let's wait for the second ?! :-) Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item319 From nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Thu Jun 10 12:57:24 1993 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 02:57:24 +1000 (EST) From: Nikola Vukovljak Subject: Re: Real 3D object sites (fwd) To: Multiple recipients of list ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 15:06:39 +0800 From: Brendan Langoulant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Real 3D object sites Greetings all, > Also, is this mailing list being or going to be compiled into archives like > the @{"Imagine" link imagine} Mailing list? I suppose that I could do that... I spend so much time trying to simply keep the number of mail message less than 100 that it shouldnt be much more wasted time... I'd really appreciate it. It'll make quite a few guys here in Oz happy. I would like to extend this concept slightly further... Is anyone interested in creating some objects for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } (v2 we may as well standardize). My idea is that we put togther a list of all objects that we would like and people can simply pick and choose the items that they want to create. The more I work with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } the more I realise that having a set of objects to simply grab as needed makes for a much more productive session. Suggested Furnishings - Chairs Tables Wall Hangings Vases Shelving Cupboard Television Curtains etc... Obscure - Blobs swirls Animals - Well there are lots of them.... (I just dont want to make those ones.. ;-) Materials could also be included in a list.... Put forward some suggestions for some suggestions for object heirachy. -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au This sounds great too. Nik. nvukovlj@ucc.su.OZ.AU @endnode @node item320 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:46:24 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:03:50 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Reviews Hello Dino (Dino Fancellu). On Jun 2, you have written : > The AC review seems a lot better. It is generally favourable and recognises > tha package for the amazing product that it is whilst making some reasonable > critisisms, mostly the slowness of b-splines, motion blur, and soft shadow, > and the complexity of RPL. All in all 4 pages worth of good publicity. To be positive, I find motion blur and depth of field quite fast. None of these seem to double the rendering time, so I think the code is well optimized. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item321 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:47:29 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:33:56 MET In-Reply-To: <9306071408.AA005pq@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Mon, 7 Jun 1993 09:13:45 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Missing Mail Hello John (John Shiali). On Jun 7, you have written : > There seems to be mail missing from here - I am seing replies to > original messages that I haven't seen, and people saying that they > haven't seen my posts - is anyone else having problems? Yes, I've had a big routing problem with something which added "Reply-To: uniwa.uwa.edu.au", and got many bounces on that last site. Maybe someone is trying to kill us ? ;-) Now, I always check if the return address is REALly real3D@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item322 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:48:29 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:04:43 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Misc. thoughts Hello Paul (Paul van der Heu). On Jun 2, you have written : > > > Some of the bugs described on this list should not still > > > be in the software (the environments not getting saved), but I > > The enviroment is part of the PROJECT, not the SETTINGS!! so it is saved with > the project. Okay, okay, calm down ! :-) One thing important should be to have a default project loaded when you run the program, then. > Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS While we're at it, Paul, I will surely be one of the persons responsible of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } support, in France, and I would like to put a @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } BBS in this country. Aymeric de la Vaissiere, from Avancee, my local dealer, said that he will send you some SyQuest cartridges to put the R3D stuff on it. Our BBS would poll yours every 3 weeks to get all the new patches/PD programs/animations. The BBS is already active. It's the "Bouncing Ball BBS", 2:320/108.0, Sysop Francois Pinault. Can I have your opinion on this, please ? Thanks. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item323 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:49:39 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:05:25 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: R3D Hello watters (watters). On Jun 1, you have written : > I wonder how many people that are complaining about the bugs, are the same > people that were complaining about how long it took to be released. I don't see your point, here, David. I've been waiting for a new version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } since 1.42, and even more when I knew about the new features it would bring, and I'm complaining about the bugs... > After getting a chance to take a good look at R3D2, I can say that it's > interface is nothing short of amazing, it's procedural @{"animation" link r3d2a} support is > ground breaking, and it's AREXX/RPL features are a gift from the heavens.... > but it is a DOG!!! DEE.. OH.. GEE.. Dog, and therefore unusable (by me) as > a production renderer. I don't know what you mean with your dog, but dogs can be fast :-) Of course, I agree with you on this, and I'm waiting for the scanline rendering method as much as you do as I expect to do some professional work with it. Now, I hope that Vesa will have access to (Fido | Use)Net, as we *should* have his opinion about the product, and its evolution. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item324 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 10 09:50:48 1993 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 20:07:04 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: complaints Hello Activa (Activa International). On Jun 1, you have written : > It has come to our attention a number of people are posting complaints > concerning R3D2 which could be solved by using legal copies, reading > the manual or asking Activa for an answer. I don't think many people here use illegal copies of Real. My version number is #A2000035, but I can't send you the registration card (yet) as my local dealer (Avancee) lend it to me, as I'll review the product in AmigaNews (and that's why Vesa's answers to my questions become quite urgent. Esa, read you more ? :-) ) > > As NONE of these complaints are directed at either Realsoft or Activa > and none of these contains specific bugreport information there is > little that can be done about it. Bugreports are one thing, giving our impressions on the product is another. The *main* thing we have been discussing on is the lack of scanline rendering, and I don't think it would suit very well in a bug report, as this is not a feature :-) To talk about me, I've passed my questions/suggestions to Esa Haapaniemi who has a friend who knows Vesa directly, and this was before I had any knowledge about a @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } mailing-list or a (quite) direct UseNet address to join Activa. > We would like to stress that shouting stuff like this does NOT help in > solving these problems, it only gives a bad impression of what Real can > do. Yes, I agree, people (and I'm one of them) are quite negative on the product, but at least is it their first impression, having heard for months that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } will shoot away any other package (yes, even @{"Lightwave" link lightwave}). One thing I didn't understand with all these negative discussions is that they came to the other mailing-lists and, even, to comp.sys.amiga.graphics, which is quite a bad shot. Don't forget that the more critic people here are the professionals, who have heard that @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } was professional, which it's not in its current version, but will surely become (I have faith in Vesa's ability to change things). Now, I think the power is in your hands, and in Vesa's, and that the scanline rendering implementation becomes urgent... > So please people do NOT post these posts on the list like this, but post > a BUGREPORT to : > > real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl It's a bit late to tell us this, we should have known about it before ! And what about a "suggestions address", like real-suggest@...... ? Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item325 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Thu Jun 10 12:46:17 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 18:01:28 CET Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: maillist readme and admin address Could any kind sould please mail me the initial mailing on the list, as I have lost it somewhere.. Also I would like my address changed, but get no reaction from what I believe is theadmin address, so it might be wrong.. Could anyone pleas eget me the correct admin address? -- =20 Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS =20 Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way =20 FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl =20 'Givin' them something they can FEEL' @endnode @node item326 From eha@phoenix.oulu.fi Thu Jun 10 10:56:12 1993 From: eha@phoenix.oulu.fi (Esa Haapaniemi) Subject: Re: complaints To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:56:12 -0100 (GMT-2:00) In-Reply-To: <9306081907.AA00eq3@amipb.gna.org> from "Philippe Berard" at Jun 10, 93 04:15:54 pm > (and that's why Vesa's answers to my questions become quite > urgent. Esa, read you more ? :-) ) I'm still here :) And yours as well others suggestions/complaints/ theories/tricks/... will be given to that particular friend of mine during this week. I cannot force (TM) him to give them to Vesa, but I heard from him that Vesa is getting this stuff from somewhere else too (maybe Dino ?). And ofcource Activa is doing their job too (I hope) > (I have faith in Vesa's ability to change things). At least you have faith to that ;)) OK. I knowe that Vesa is still working mainly with Amigaversion, but the Windows and unix versions do take a lot of his time now... > Now, I think the power is in your hands, and in Vesa's, and that the > scanline rendering implementation becomes urgent... Oh boy ! I feel very important. I hope I don't let you down ;) (again). > And what about a "suggestions address", like real-suggest@...... ? How often do the Activa make contacts to Vesa ? Could this be useful at this critical times ? Vesa is maybe too keen on getting all new to the program, and he can miss some "bugs" by doing that. (I DON'T KNOW HIM PERSONALLY !)... Esa Haapaniemi University of Oulu Finland @endnode @node item327 From U2102952@csdvax.csd.unsw.EDU.AU Sun Jun 11 05:23:42 1993 Date: 10 Jun 1993 19:23:42 +1000 From: U2102952@csdvax.csd.unsw.EDU.AU Subject: Re: SUBSCRIBE To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Two things... 1 - With the amount of mail flying around this forum should be on a digest. 2 - How do I unsubscribe? (hint!) @endnode @node item328 From zandonad@dsi.unimi.it Thu Jun 10 18:20:09 1993 From: marco zandonadi Subject: Please UNSUBSCRIBE me! To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 12:25:36 METDST I don't know how to unsubscribe from the list. Please help me! Thanks. Marco Zandonadi | zandonad@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it | | | | Dipartimento di Scienze dell'informazione | | Milano | @endnode @node item329 From dino@thought.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 10 13:26:45 1993 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 13:26:45 GMT Reply-To: dino@thought.demon.co.uk From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: maillist readme and admin address Paul said, > Could any kind sould please mail me the initial mailing on the list, > as I have lost it somewhere.. Also I would like my address changed, > but get no reaction from what I believe is theadmin address, so it > might be wrong.. Could anyone pleas eget me the correct admin address? I want my address for this list changed as well to dino@thought.demon.co.uk, I have sent mail to Brendan but to no effect, help. Its now being bounced @endnode @node item330 from work up to me, a bit of a waste of time. Is Brendan on holiday or just snowed under? Dino. {---------------><-----------------><--------------} { } { Hail Discordia! Hail Amiga! Undercover Must Die! } { } {---------------><-----------------><--------------} @endnode @node item331 From dino@thought.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 10 13:33:37 1993 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 13:33:37 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306100856.AA19838@phoenix.oulu.fi> (from Esa Haapaniemi ) (at Thu, 10 Jun 1993 17:06:11 +0800) Reply-To: dino@thought.demon.co.uk From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: complaints Hi Esa, > > I'm still here :) And yours as well others suggestions/complaints/ > theories/tricks/... will be given to that particular friend of mine > during this week. I cannot force (TM) him to give them to Vesa, but > I heard from him that Vesa is getting this stuff from somewhere else > too (maybe Dino ?). And ofcource Activa is doing their job too (I hope) > Vesa has got an account on the Canadian @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } support board. He is also being faxed info from the UK @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } fido group. As Paul said a good place to make sure that Vesa gets stuff is real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl Dino. {---------------><-----------------><--------------} { } { Hail Discordia! Hail Amiga! Undercover Must Die! } { } {---------------><-----------------><--------------} @endnode @node item332 From dino@thought.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 10 13:39:04 1993 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 13:39:04 GMT Reply-To: dino@thought.demon.co.uk From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Version history Just in case none of you have this file, it is the version history changes for 2.34 - Render settings/Set file name menu works now. - Palette window/Fetch function deadlocked the object structure when it was applied without any objects being selected. This bug is now fixed. - New method levels are now named according to their method type. - FIL_LOAD word did not work from an RPL window; this is now fixed. - From now on, select window produces a reversed argument list order when the user drag-selects multiple objects upwards. - The RPL word GET_VECT no longer rounds the initial values to integers. - Morphing syntax error produced an Amigaguide help call with a wrong node reference; this works now correctly. - no longer pushes vectors to stack; instead, works as a 'selected objects only' qualifier when using dragging to average points of objects. - The additional 'Dvect' point of planar primitives (rectangle, circle, polygon) is now ignored in vector stack and dragging operations. For example, the examples of the tutorial page 1.3 work now properly. - @{"Animation" link r3d2a} window Play To/Jump To gadget was not correctly set when the window was opened. This bug is fixed. - Extend function locks now properly to grids. - An attempt to delete all points of a mesh is now handled correctly. - Wireframe-invisible morphing targets are now accepted. - Named Colors/Modify menu function works now properly. - Object name length overflow bug in RealConvert utility is now fixed. Dino. {---------------><-----------------><--------------} { } { Hail Discordia! Hail Amiga! Undercover Must Die! } { } {---------------><-----------------><--------------} @endnode @node item333 From wdmcclen@infonode.ingr.com Thu Jun 10 07:58:42 1993 From: wdmcclen@infonode.ingr.com (William D McClendon) Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Re: Please UNSUBSCRIBE me! To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 12:58:42 CDT In-Reply-To: <199306101745.AA07618@infonode.ingr.com>; from "real3d@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au" at Jun 11, 93 1:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 06.05.01.04 (2.3 PL11)] REMOVE @endnode @node item334 From watters@cranel.com Thu Jun 10 13:35:40 1993 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:35:40 EDT From: watters To: drrogers@camelot.b24a.ingr.com Subject: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > What does IDE stand for? I was told once that it stood for Integrated Digital Expansion, I was also told it was for Intelligent Disk (Drive) Expansion. We are a bit biased to SCSI around here so when I have asked in the past I always got I Don't care Either...IDE. >Can both exist on the same system? Yes. > I ask because I > already have a SCSI controller in my 2500/30. I am interested in > the DPS harddrive @{"animation" link r3d2a} system and realize it needs an IDE > interface. It has it's own IDE interface onboard. The DPS PAR with work in a system that has a SCSI controller. I hate to make a plug, but if people are planning on getting a drive for the DPS Personal Animation Recorder... I strongly suggest you get in touch with the company I work for as we are a distributor for many high-end drive vendors including HP and the better Seagate stuff and I believe the Seagate 3600A is the only drive that has been qualified so far. I will own a DPS PAR myself so you will have some experienced technical support if you get the drive here. Believe me... I don't care if you get the drive here or not... the money doesn't go into my pocket... although I would enjoy getting to talk to a lot of Amiga people that need help instead of a day full of Unix dweebs. :) While we are at it... if you need any large hard disks, MagnetoOptical drives, or tape (4mm DDS/DAT, 8mm, etc.) give Cranel a call because you will get some decent pricing from a distributor and I will get to talk to a lot more of you! We also sell multi-Terabyte optical systems if you are rendering a lot! :) Cranel's number is (614) 431-8000 or (800) 288-3475 You can find info and adds from Cranel in most Unix and Imaging Rags such as SunWorld and Imaging Magazine. Hope this wasn't too bad... I just hate that we don't sell to many Amiga users... some Universities here and there that we are already under contract with but that is it. _ __ David ~ |_|_---' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-_______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering Congratulations Emerson Fittipaldi, Chevrolet, and Penske!!! -=+ 1993 Indianapolis 500 Winners +=- @endnode @node item335 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Fri Jun 11 21:04:44 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 10:29:31 CET In-Reply-To: <9306081118.aa22401@hubbub.westford.ccur.com> (from Mark Thompson ) (at Tue, 8 Jun 1993 23:25:32 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: I WANT SOFT SHADOWS! Hi Mark (Mark Thompson), in <9306081118.aa22401@hubbub.westford.ccur.com> on Jun 8 you wrote: > Now I'm not on this list just to continuously scream LW, LW, LW (I think > my posts have been pretty constructive thus far). But I will attempt to keep > people honest and objective once and a while. besides, @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} is useless to me since it requires a dongle which only works in NTSC mode.. -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl 'Givin' them something they can FEEL' @endnode @node item336 From pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl Fri Jun 11 22:53:07 1993 for mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:47:31 CET In-Reply-To: <9306091609.AA005rt@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Thu, 10 Jun 1993 13:17:39 +0800) Reply-To: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl From: pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Question from Andy Hi John (John Shiali), in <9306091609.AA005rt@heights.demon.co.uk> on Jun 10 you wrote: > mailing list now censored/moderated, and if so are you doing that job? no and no > saying that you just want me not to post bad things about Real? Are No, I am not.. In this world you are free to say/post whatever you please, just try to channel you posts throught he right channels. A collection of bugreports is of little use to the general public and should be directed at activa from where a solution can be worked on. It is ok, fine really to be critical, but be constructive at the same time.. don't critisize for the sake of a bashing party.. > you speaking for Activa in this respect, and if not, do they know you no, I am not speaking for Activa, if I was the article would have come from activa. > are applying that kind of pressure to another registered user? I am not applying pressure to anyone. I merely requested you to not post articles which have little use. (as this reply sadly is actually, I'll take it to email from here.. -- Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - pvdh@motship.hacktic.nl 'Givin' them something they can FEEL' @endnode @node item337 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Fri Jun 11 22:56:53 1993 for ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:00:26 CET In-Reply-To: <9306081406.AA12844@ad0.reach.com> (from swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston )) (at Wed, 9 Jun 1993 13:51:07 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Mirrored fonts Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), in <9306081406.AA12844@ad0.reach.com> on Jun 9 you wrote: > I'm creating a logo using the Tube fonts that come > with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2. I mapped the mirror material on them (used default > mapping), and set up an environment picture, and enabled > environment mapping in the render settings. The fonts show up > as red (the environment pic is a blue sky w/ clouds). They are > shiny and appear somewhat like glass, but they aren't reflecting > the environment like I thought they would. And I am rendering > in the normal mode with one light wall. I'm probably making > a simple mistake...does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Hi, Very simple, select your fontobject, go in to the palet and select fetch with the pull-down menu . you will then see that the font is originally red so just change it to white or any other color. Activa/ J.P. Bresser -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 It's time to get REAL @endnode @node item338 From gfxbase!ebers@tmpmbx.netmbx.de Fri Jun 11 23:36:50 1993 id ; Fri, 11 Jun 93 17:48 MET DST Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 17:38:45 CET From: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de (Thorsten Ebers) Subject: Virtuell mem Hi reality people, Is anyone using Giga-mem with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2.33 ? I do not get working.I use version 3.0 of Gigamem. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } allways takes fast ram and no Gigamem-ram :-((( Any help would be wonderfull. greetings Thorsten --- Thorsten Ebers e-mail: ebers@gfxbase.in-berlin.de Tel.: +49 30 321 3428 @endnode @node item339 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Fri Jun 11 07:41:21 1993 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:41:21 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Real Problems Hi.... 2 quick questions: I have an amiga 4000 that I am running in multiscan productivity.... (which seems to be the highest mode I can run it in without all of that 4000 screen promotion stuff....) The problem is: that when I render to dctv (as an external screen) it shows up on the computer monitor fine...(although it is shifted to the right a little??) and does not show up on the tv monitor..? any ideas on how to fix this? also...when I open up the @{"animation" link r3d2a} screen/window it is way to big/long (I am not sure what resolution it is opening in...but it goes off the right side "big-time".... I cant get the pointer over to the save button...to save any of my anims....? any ideas on this too? besides that.... everything seems to be working great! Tony Boutwell trb3@ra.msstate.edu (oh I am using v. 2.33 '40) @endnode @node item340 From collett@agora.rain.com Fri Jun 11 09:20:00 1993 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 16:20 PDT From: collett@agora.rain.com (Ray Collett) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 >Tomek, > > It's true. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 does not currently support non-FPU Amigas. Two >versions are included. FPU and 040. > >CarmenR - Crazed Artist >CarmenR@cup.portal.com > It's weird, I tryed the 040 version on my unacclerated A3000, and it worked fine. I guese that the 040 ver is not as optimized as we're led to beleve... collett@agora.rain.com @endnode @node item341 From dino@thought.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 12 02:47:21 1993 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 02:47:21 GMT In-Reply-To: (from Ray Collett ) (at Sat, 12 Jun 1993 07:24:50 +0800) Reply-To: dino@thought.demon.co.uk From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 Hi Ray, > >Tomek, > > > > It's true. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2 does not currently support non-FPU Amigas. Two > >versions are included. FPU and 040. > > > >CarmenR - Crazed Artist > >CarmenR@cup.portal.com > > > It's weird, I tryed the 040 version on my unacclerated A3000, and it worked fine. > I guese that the 040 ver is not as optimized as we're led to beleve... > > collett@agora.rain.com > I've heard from somewhere that the 040 version is very unoptimized, can't remember where though. What version are you using. I've also heard that some of the earlier versions where no different from the '030 version. Dino. {---------------><-----------------><--------------} { } { Hail Discordia! Hail Amiga! Undercover Must Die! } { } {---------------><-----------------><--------------} @endnode @node item342 From draco!sorvan@bison.mb.ca Sat Jun 12 18:01:59 1993 for gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d From: sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca (Colin Stobbe) Subject: Polygon Mesh Problem Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 18:01:59 +0000 (GMT) Hello, I've been using @{"Imagine" link imagine} until I got R3D 2.0, so I'd like to convert the objects, and use them. Ok, so I convert the @{"Imagine" link imagine} objects to Sculpt format, which RealConvert changes to R3D 2.0 format. When it asks me if I want triangles, or an object, I select object. The problem comes when I try to manipulate the object in R3D, basically I can't seem to delete any of it. Sure I can use the drag to make groups, and move the groups around, but I'd really like to get rid of them. Any way to do this besides having to load up @{"Imagine" link imagine}? Thanks, --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Colin Stobbe | And it came to pass that Babylon 5 was confirmed sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca | as a series, and there was much eeping! -COJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item343 From boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl Mon Jun 14 01:30:10 1993 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 14:53:07 MET From: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl (Paul Kolenbrander) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 Hello Ray Collett, On 12 JUN 1993 07:20:00 you said regarding Re: non FPU version of R3D2: > It's weird, I tryed the 040 version on my unacclerated A3000, and it worked fine. > I guese that the 040 ver is not as optimized as we're led to beleve... It's not that it would not run, or run good for that matter. It's probably been optimized to make the best use of 040 caches that it can. Which does make a difference. As far as I can check, the 040 (2.33) version of Real is about 4 times faster on my A4000/040 than running on a standard A3000. Of course this is not all due to optimizing, but has a lot to do with the superior performance of an 68040. My guess, the 040 version of Real is identical to the 020/ 030 version, but has just been recompiled for the 040 using the appropriate switches in the compiler. This would make sense from a development point of view. Otherwise they'd have to maintain two sets of sources. CYa, Paul -- -The difference between meat and fish is that if you beat your fish it dies -- Paul Kolenbrander \ InterNet: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:284/112.1 Paul Kolenbrander NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Voice: +31-40-415752 | Timezone:GMT+1 | Fax: +31-40-426446 @endnode @node item344 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Mon Jun 14 03:13:10 1993 Date: 13 Jun 1993 20:17:45 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: RE: Speed of optimised Real40 To: "Real3D" I posted some test results for rendering using Real2 020/030 and 040 optimsed versions. John Shiali suggested that I might have a bottleneck using my DCTV. I downloaded Real020/030 2.33 (I was only able to test v2.31 before) and reran my test rendering to an IFF-24 file in RAM: (I deleted each the image after rendering to give each version of Real the same amount of memory, 20MB). Here are the results ('normal' ray trace, 2 lights, 736x566, antialiasing 2): Version Render Time 2.33 020/030 15 min 15 sec 2.33 040 15 min 00 sec That makes the optimised version 1.6% faster. It would appear that DCTV has no adverse effect on rendering times, since the DCTV timings I posted were about the 15 minute mark as well. The DCTV library might affect timings if the rendering process were substantially quicker, but it would seem to have little or no impact on a render this slow. I am unimpressed :-( I want a FAST (PAL) renderer!! Is the eightfold rendering performance claim in the manual a hollow one? I hope not. Guess I'll have to wait and see... Regards, David Oxley, Logica UK Ltd. @endnode @node item345 From hrmitter@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de Mon Jun 14 20:21:26 1993 From: Holger Mitterwald Subject: Re: Virtuell mem To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 13:20:38 MSZ In-Reply-To: <9306111638.AA005pz@gfxbase.in-berlin.de>; from "Thorsten Ebers" at Jun 12, 93 1:27 am > Is anyone using Giga-mem with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2.33 ? > > I do not get working.I use version 3.0 of Gigamem. > @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } allways takes fast ram and no Gigamem-ram :-((( > > Any help would be wonderfull. As far as I know Gigamem only takes public mem for swapping. In Aminet a program called f2p is around. This program changes all fastmem hunks into public mem hunks. Maybe this helps. So long, Holger @endnode @node item346 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Mon Jun 14 06:24:29 1993 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:24:29 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Virtuell mem any ideas yet on why dctv's external screen doesnt work right? ie: looks right on the computer monitor but doesnt show up on the tv monitor....? also how do I get the @{"animation" link r3d2a} window to open up in a different screen resolution??? right now half of it is off the screen to the right...? thanks trb3@ra.msstate.edu @endnode @node item347 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Tue Jun 15 13:45:46 1993 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 14:23:27 MET In-Reply-To: <9306032240.1.29419@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Thu, 3 Jun 1993 21:38:09 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help2 Hello CarmenR (CarmenR). On Jun 3, you have written : > Hey! Thanks for your help! Using the @{"Imagine" link imagine} IFF converter and then > converting to Sculpt, then converting to Real using RealConvert [sheesh!]. > I can't wait to try this out. From what I've heard, Vesa didn't want to have direct support of @{"Imagine" link imagine}'s format, so this is the way to go :-( If anyone has a better idea (Pixel 3D Pro could be good for that job, too, but then you should have to save in Sculpt format :-( ). Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item348 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Tue Jun 15 13:46:45 1993 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 22:40:31 MET In-Reply-To: <9306050554.AA19315@tfd.com> (from Mail Delivery Subsystem ) (at Sat, 5 Jun 93 01:54:24 -0400) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Misc. thoughts Hello Mark (Mark Thompson). On Jun 2, you have written : > I would be willing to bet that my current beta copy of LW has many times > fewer bugs than the current release version of R3D. Its good to hear that One thing important here : I don't think @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} 3.0 is a complete rewrite of @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} 2, while @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 2.0 is a (quite) complete rewrite of the previous one. By the way, it's true that some *big* softwares like SoftImage or, even more, Explore (TDI) are (were) full of bugs when being dropped to the market, and it's even true that users should be open-minded to report bugs to the programmers. But we have the right to be exigent, even if @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } is less expensive than SoftImage or Explore, because the market is different and that 4000 Francs ($800, in France) isn't something every Amiga Fan can afford. I'm at the point where I agree with John and Paul :-) > the developers are working quickly to remedy the problem, but I think its > evident that this product was rushed to market. "rushed" is maybe a little bit too much, considering the number of months we have been waiting for the product, but it's close to what I think. Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item349 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Tue Jun 15 13:47:46 1993 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 09:30:00 MET From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: activa@motship.hacktic.nl Subject: Suggestions This list is carbon copied to Activa. Here are some of the capabilities I would like to see implemented in @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.?? : - *TRUE* scanline rendering :-) ; - *TRUE* shadow mapping (rendered, but not raytraced), for the *TRUE* scanline rendering method above ; - Radiosity (yes, it would be slow for the first picture of an an animation, but doesn't slow a 100+ frames @{"animation" link r3d2a} that much) ; - Detail level (to speed up renderings a little more when the camera does travelings (when you look at an object from far away, you don't see all the details)) ; - dynamic subdivision of the screen, another great speed-up found on workstations ; - Projective rendering ; - Adaptive ray-tracing (to have an automatic recursion depth) ; - Stereoscopy (a la X-Specs) ; - UNDO history buffer (to cut/paste/edit/repeat any command or group of commands) ; - Fans & flabby objects, to allow easy creation of flags. These flabby objects should have rigid parts to allow tension control (like a tent cloth) ; - Rendering time evaluation, like the one found in @{"Lightwave" link lightwave} (at least, from what I've heard) and on workstations ; - Sound analysis/synchronisation to animate, for example, a face speaking a word (could be done by analyzing an IFF sample) ; - Networked renderer (via ethernet) ; - Ability to save the parameters of the fractal tree and fractal landscape in a named file. For example : Oak, bush, special, etc... Questions : - How do you make something explode, like told in the "features" list one or 2 months ago ? I know it will require some RPL programming ; - The one Carmen pointed out : is there any easy & fast way to extrude an IFF 2D surface ? - Why is the "Environment" mode so slow, as it have been told in the past features list that it was a scanline mode ? - What is "Volumetric texture mapping" ? (also found in features list) It seems that it's different from mathematical textures done in RPL, so is there any way to put, for example, some fur; on an object ? - The RealConvert seems to have some big problems with @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } 1.4 big objects (many "Can't create wireframe"). Is it a well-known bug ? Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item350 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Tue Jun 15 13:48:52 1993 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 14:20:08 MET In-Reply-To: <9306032248.2.15325@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Thu, 3 Jun 1993 21:56:11 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3D@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Motion Blue Hello CarmenR (CarmenR). On Jun 3, you have written : > Philippe Berard, Well, Philippe is enough, you know ;-) > OK, I've sound the deal with samples in the @{"animation" link r3d2a} window.. EXACTLY > where do I give motion blur settings in attributes? Say there is a Level, > inside that level is an elipsoid, and a few mapping objects for the elipsoid. > Who gets his atts changed to make the blur.. The level? The mappers? The > elipsoid? Only the level should have MotionBlur, and you should then set the "Smpl" gadget of the @{"animation" link r3d2a} screen/window to a number greater than 0. Maybe you're in a wrong mode, Carmen. I don't know if MotionBlur renders in Environment mode... To show you something that works, here's a blurred spinning cone : --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- begin 777 MotionBlur.lha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lease don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item351 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 14 08:13:13 1993 14 Jun 93 18:00 BST Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 08:13:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <199306131913.AA06964@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> (from Oxley David ) (at Mon, 14 Jun 1993 03:16:27 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: RE: Speed of optimised Real40 Hi Oxley (Oxley David), on Jun 14 you wrote: > Version Render Time > 2.33 020/030 15 min 15 sec > 2.33 040 15 min 00 sec I give in - you must be correct.... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item352 From nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Tue Jun 15 21:18:18 1993 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:18:18 +1000 (EST) From: Nikola Vukovljak Subject: Re: non FPU version of R3D2 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <9306121353.AA00cv8@myamy.hacktic.nl> On Mon, 14 Jun 1993, Paul Kolenbrander wrote: > Hello Ray Collett, > On 12 JUN 1993 07:20:00 you said regarding Re: non FPU version of R3D2: > > > It's weird, I tryed the 040 version on my unacclerated A3000, and it worked fine. > > I guese that the 040 ver is not as optimized as we're led to beleve... > > It's not that it would not run, or run good for that matter. It's probably > been optimized to make the best use of 040 caches that it can. Which does > make a difference. As far as I can check, the 040 (2.33) version of Real > is about 4 times faster on my A4000/040 than running on a standard A3000. > Of course this is not all due to optimizing, but has a lot to do with the > superior performance of an 68040. > > My guess, the 040 version of Real is identical to the 020/ 030 version, but > has just been recompiled for the 040 using the appropriate switches in the > compiler. This would make sense from a development point of view. Otherwise > they'd have to maintain two sets of sources. > The program should run 3-4 times faster on the 4000 than on the 3000 even if it wasn't recompiled for the '040 as long as most of the FP functions used were those directly supported by the 040's built-in FPU. So, if the speed increase is only 3-4 times than the code hasn't been optimised too well at all (even if it was recompiled).. Nik. nvukovlj@ucc.su.OZ.AU @endnode @node item353 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 14 18:15:27 1993 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 18:15:27 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Modem Setting for Activa's support BBS Does anyone have modem setting for connecting to Activa's support BBS that *consistently* work? Preferably for a SupraFax... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item354 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Tue Jun 15 16:41:26 1993 Date: 15 Jun 1993 09:42:44 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: Optimising Real40? To: "Real3D" I downloaded an image archive from Real's BBS yesterday. One message in it interested me. It was, presumably, from JP Bresser at Activa to Vesa Meskanen (Andric is another Activan). The interesting bit related to the optimisation of Real40. It reads as follows: --- Quote on Hello, JP. [deleted] Then some information about the 040 version, which Andric asked: the optimizations are carried out using SAS C v.6.2 compiler 040 options. Unfortunately speed difference is quite small, as it was correctly pointed out. Hopefully SAS will improve the compiler to fully utilize 040; in the current multi-platform development situation, we do not have time and resources for significant amount of assebly [sic] hand-optimizing, since that work is not portable. Regards, Vesa --- Quote off Hmmm. From the minimal speed increase I reported on Sunday (1.6%), it looks as though we're hanging on SAS to get our *proper* speed up :( if Realsoft can't spare the effort to optimise Real40 manually. It's a shame that Vesa feels it isn't worth making full use of the 040's instruction set. Regards, David Oxley, Logica UK Ltd. @endnode @node item355 From watters@cranel.com Tue Jun 15 11:39:58 1993 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 15:39:58 EDT From: David.Watters@cranel.com, GraphX head To: lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com Subject: Seagate 3600A for DPS PAR, mailing list deal. Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com, real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au > I hate to make a plug, but if people are planning on getting a drive for > the DPS Personal Animation Recorder... I strongly suggest you get in touch > with the company I work for... Welp, I asked for it I guess. I have been flooded with requests for pricing information on this drive, so I will post a general reply and not a direct one to each individual. The Situation: Cranel Inc., is a distributor of mass storage and imaging products. Cranel sells almost exclusively to VARs (Value Added Resellers) and VADs (Value Added Dealers) in the Unix storage and DOS/Windows - OS/2 @{"Imagine" link imagine} markets. Cranel, as a distributor, does not sell into any Amiga markets directly, and there are currently no Cranel VAD/VAR customers servicing Amiga customers. As a unique situation, and as a personal project, I am providing a quote on a storage product to my fellow Amiga users and graphics artist. I am recieving _no_ commission or compensation for this, which is why I don't have a problem with this article. It is merely a gesture of friendship to those of you I talk to through Email, mailing lists, newgroups, or in person. It is also my little bit to help service a platform that gets nothing but disrespect from the markets Cranel services everyday. If I can just get someone like HP to notice that a few of their drives are being sold to Amiga owners I will have accomplished something. The Quote: The only drive to have been qualified on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder so far has been the Seagate 3600A. The 3600A is a 540MB formatted IDE drive It has a 10.5ms average seek for reads and a 12ms average seek for writes. It is rated at 200k power hours between failure and draws 5.5watts idle. The drive runs at 5,411RPM for a average lantency of 5.54ms. It is a low-profile drive with dimmensions of; 1" high, 4" wide, 5.75" deep, and it is 1.65lbs. It has a 256KB multisegmented cache and a 2 year warrenty. (This is all from the spec sheet) The price is $750 plus shipping and must be done COD, Visa, or Mastercard. No terms. You must be a current member of one of the Amiga related mailing lists at this time to be able to get it at this price. This is merely to limit the scope of who is involved. I would like to publicly ask the administrators of these list if they could send me a current subscription list to help keep things fair. If you are interested you should get in touch with me through Email at: watters@cranel.com This unique situation does not apply to any current or future Cranel customers that are already being represented by a Cranel salesperson. _ ___ David ~ |_|,--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-_______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item356 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue Jun 15 10:35:38 1993 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 14:35:38 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) Subject: version 2.34 Realsoft International has just posted version 2.34 up on the BBS in Canada. Judging from the docs with it, a lot of bugs have been squashed. I have the list at home and will try to remember to bring it in so I can post them. I may be wrong, but rendering seems faster also (in normal mode). Shayne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @endnode @node item357 From swhitenn@reach.com Tue Jun 15 10:16:16 1993 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 14:16:16 EDT From: swhitenn@reach.com (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Suggestions Reply -- Most of your suggestions would be welcomed I think, and it is good that you are sending them to Activa and not just denouncing R3D2 because it doesn't have them. By the way Phillipe, what is radiosity? Shayne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + SHAYNE WHITE - STANDARD DISCLAIMER .... + + AMIGA 2000, RCS FUSION FORTY, 7 MEGS RAM, 213MB MAXTOR + + SWHITENN@REACH.COM + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *======== Regarding ========* Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 01:22:49 +0800 This list is carbon copied to Activa. Here are some of the capabilities I would like to see implemented in @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.?? : - *TRUE* scanline rendering :-) ; @endnode @node item358 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Tue Jun 15 12:42:47 1993 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 16:42:47 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Suggestions In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 04:10:10 +0800 I have the 2.34 list so I'll post it to save Shayne's fingers @endnode @node item359 from typing... (PowerSnap!) V.2.34 ------ - Render settings/Set file name menu works now. - Palette window/Fetch function deadlocked the object structure when it was applied without any objects being selected. This bug is now fixed. - New method levels are now named according to their method type. - FIL_LOAD word did not work from an RPL window; this is now fixed. - From now on, select window produces a reversed argument list order when the user drag-selects multiple objects upwards. - The RPL word GET_VECT no longer rounds the initial values to integers. - Morphing syntax error produced an Amigaguide help call with a wrong node reference; this works now correctly. - no longer pushes vectors to stack; instead, works as a 'selected objects only' qualifier when using dragging to average points of objects. - The additional 'Dvect' point of planar primitives (rectangle, circle, polygon) is now ignored in vector stack and dragging operations. For example, the examples of the tutorial page 1.3 work now properly. - @{"Animation" link r3d2a} window Play To/Jump To gadget was not correctly set when the window was opened. This bug is fixed. - Extend function locks now properly to grids. - An attempt to delete all points of a mesh is now handled correctly. - Wireframe-invisible morphing targets are now accepted. - Named Colors/Modify menu function works now properly. - B-spline surface 'Move Knotpoint' bug fixed. - Cancelling conical tube tools in level name query works now. - Object name length overflow bug in RealConvert utility is now fixed. - Lathe tool leaves the axis visible and does not use primitive name query. Also, level name query is done after the shape definition as with the other compound tools. - Ellipsed polygon/polyhedron tool level name query moved to a proper place. - Create/Freeform/Orthogonal tool improved; it accepts now multiple control points without problems and does not produce errors when the sweeping curve is a circle with even number of points. - Autofocus supports now multiselection. - Some incorrect RPL startup shortcuts fixed - Vector tag bug in View/Render/Export RPL fixed. - Rendering error, which occasionally clipped edges of polygons away, is now fixed. - Plenty of system autorequester calls, which confused screen order, have been replaced with a nicely behaving custom requester. - Data format documentation for developers expanded. - Skeletons work now well also when 1st and 2nd skeleton curves are parallel. - Measuring window: occasional deadlocks removed and TAB key activates the next numeric gadget also under Amiga OS v.37. - Deltaplay program handles overscan displays better now. o------------------------------------------------------------------------o | Charles Lee /////\ |=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=| FocuS GraphicS | | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" | - F O R T R E S S - | 2D/3D Graphics | | Structural Biology Lab | | 3D Animation | | Brandeis University |______/\_M_I_G_/\______| 617-891-1367 | o------------------------------------------------------------------------o @endnode @node item360 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 16 08:23:00 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 08:23:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306151835.AA06970@ad0.reach.com> (from Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston ) (at Wed, 16 Jun 1993 03:54:57 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: version 2.34 Hi Shayne (Shayne White -- BA/ITAS - Boston), on Jun 16 you wrote: > Realsoft International has just posted version 2.34 up on the BBS > in Canada. Judging from the docs with it, a lot of bugs have been Hey! It's not on the Activa BBS yet! Was supposed to be last week, or am I just being stupid - where is it supposed to be? I have posted messages asking this both via Internet and on the BBS last week, but I have had no answers.. Anyone know? John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item361 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 16 08:53:20 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 08:53:20 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: Real Wishlist Does anyone know the answers to these questions or if there are ways of doing this that haven't been found - this was put together by quite a few people.... 1) Is the DOF related to the focal length? The manual states the DOF scale 'controls how the Absolute Spatial Distance of an object from the Aim-point affects the focus' But how does it control it? 2) How can the user determine the order in which vectors are placed on the stack? If you SHIFT-DRAG around a sphere all of its points are placed on the stack but how can I tell in which order? Does the order remained the same regardless of which axis was selected when the drag was performed? 3) The measuring window. What does the 'N' gadget do and under what circumstances? How does it define the depth of an object being created? Why does the measuring window close when you close an environment, or refuse to open on any screen but the first that was opened? Is it possible to have absolute and relative coordinates active at the same time? Why don't the settings defined in the measuring window affect the view window coordinates? 4) Joining primatives, why will it never join more than two meshes? Can it be made to do so in the order they were extend selected? 5) When pasting objects into a select window why can't you insert it above the currently selected object? At the moment you have to do two cut and pastes to achieve this. 6) Collision detection. I seem to have discovered a bug related to objects colliding. If you 'throw' a sphere at the corner of a cube the cube will only start to spin in one axis. If you hit the top left then it will spin around the x axis, hit the side it will spin around the y, but never both. Why? Is it a limitation of the @{"animation" link r3d2a} system? I tried the suggestions passed on via the Activa Support BBS but it didn't improve the situation at all. I have got it down to a fine art now and moving the sphere one pixel left or right alters how the cube spins as a result. There is no grey area here, it does one or the other, never both. 7) The obscure and add wire functions from V1.4 were very useful. Is it possible to add a similar facility to V2? 8) Is it possible to add some kind of warning that would appear when you go to render that lists incorrect boolean attributes in the hierarchy. Chris Perigo had all sorts of problems with objects in a scene 'disappearing' with no obvious cause. He finally, after two days of looking at it, traced the problem to one primative being inverted when it shouldn't have. The object was used in an AND NOT and was later copied to be used elsewhere in the scene. Select windows give no indication of whether objects are inverted or not and therefore the user has to manually check each object to find out which ones are. There is no way we can remember which ones are which on a complex scene. Along with a warning is it possible to append a flag to inverted objects in a similar way to textures so they stand out in the select window. 9) Can we have the boolean DIVIDE as used in V1.4 back please, I found this one of the most useful operations. You can perform the same operations with just AND or AND NOT but you have to do it twice. 10) Is it possible to have a pause button on the rendering status window? This would enable you to pause a render should you need the CPU time for some other task. 11) What is C_TOROID? It is in the RPL VLIST but it is not documented. 12) Is there any way to lock a view window to a camera so that when you alter the cameras position the view automatically gets updated. At present you have to select the window and select View > Camera > Camera - View or W each time you move it. 13) Savable fractal tree and landscape configs. 14) Freeform rotation no longer asks for a angle of rotation and always does 360 degrees. Can a requestor be added please. 15) Cannot cancel a render during optimization, this can cause very long delays if you are working on a complex scene. 16) Is it possible to close Workbench whilst running Real? This would enable users to have more chip ram available for a greater variety of rendering screens. It can also be annoying when cycling through screens having WB there. 17) Cylinder mapping - The texture always gets put on back to front meaning you have to flip it in Dpaint before using it. This means having a copy of the brush if you intend to use it for parallel mapping as well. 18) Real keeps the textures in ram after it uses them once. This ram should be given back to the sytem once the render has finished. If you are using several 24bit textures you may not have enough ram available to run say Art Department to edit one of the textures and will have to reboot in order to do it. The other side effect is that if you change an iff texture in Dpaint or ADPro Real doesn't use the changed version in future renders unless you go and change the name in the material, apply it, start a render, abort it, change it back again... Real should load the textures in every time you render. 19) If you hold down and + on the numeric pad instead of zooming in the screen flashes and the HD is accessed. This does not happen if you use ' =' to zoom in. While I was trying to recreate this report I discovered that ' =' produces the same flashing and files being opened. 20) Soft shadows don't have any affect on bumpmaps. The bump mapped pattern disappears along a straight line regardless of how high the light sampling is set in the render settings. 21) Out of focus objects and soft shadows aren't reflected as blured, they always appear sharp. Is this a limitation of the program? This also occurs when you view a out of focus object through a sharp 'glass' object but I guess this is strongly related to relfections. 22) Another missing function from v1.4 I'm afraid. You can no longer use curves as definitions for compound objects other than in freeform creation where they are essential. V1.4 would let you use them for polyhedrons, lathe1, tube tools, etc. This was extremely useful and most of these tools were never used without this ability. V2 expects you to get it right first time, 1.4 would let you play with the definition to your hearts content. 23) Autofocus is somewhat unpredictable. It will often place the selected object in one corner of the screen. 24) If you make a open line with just a start and end position and then remap it to 8 points it will end up with a loop stretching out of the middle. This suggests there is a bug with remapping freeforms. It also prevents an easy way of making a straight line with more than two points. 25) Regular cut polymid will not let me define the size of the other end on my machine but works correctly on Chris Perigos'. I have an A1500 with a Fusion Forty 28mhz 68040 with 8mb of 32bit fast ram and 1mb of chip. He has an A1500 with a GVP G-Force 030-40 card with the same ram as myself. I have tried both the 040 and 020/030 versions of Real but neither let me perform the operation. Other cut primatives work correctly. Chris says the tab key will not let him create a centered second end on the regular cut polymid. It places the cursor in the centre but then sizes the second end from a different offset position. On my machine the second end stays as a point and is just moved between the centre and a position NW of the it in the Z axis and between centre and W when created in the X and Y. I have cut my startup-sequence and user-startup down to everything that is absolutely necessary which is just assigns and mounting a second hard drive. This makes no difference whatsoever. 26) Certain input windows will not accept the return key as okay and you either have to press 'O' or click on the 'OK' gadget to enter the number. This is un-necessary and very annoying. 27) The small '+' cursor needs to be updated in every view window every time you click in one. At present it only updates in the currently selected window. This slows down the creation process. John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item362 From lee@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu Wed Jun 16 00:34:46 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 4:34:46 EDT From: charles lee To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: version 2.34 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:10:07 +0800 John Shiali writes: >Hey! It's not on the Activa BBS yet! Was supposed to be last week, or >am I just being stupid - where is it supposed to be? I have posted >messages asking this both via Internet and on the BBS last week, but I >have had no answers.. Anyone know? Hmmm... try 1-519-436-0140, that's the number of the North American support BBS. Vesa u/l'ed it directly there.... Not too sure about the Activa BBS; is that the one in Europe? o------------------------------------------------------------------------o | Charles Lee /////\ |=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=| FocuS GraphicS | | ~~~~~~~~~~~ C o.o | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | Fortress Amiga \__/ -"AMIGA!" | - F O R T R E S S - | 2D/3D Graphics | | Structural Biology Lab | | 3D Animation | | Brandeis University |______/\_M_I_G_/\______| 617-891-1367 | o------------------------------------------------------------------------o @endnode @node item363 From oxleyd@dodo.logica.co.uk Wed Jun 16 17:11:36 1993 Date: 16 Jun 1993 09:24:37 U From: "Oxley David" Subject: RE: Speed of optimised Real40 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Hi John, on June 15 you wrote: >> Version Render Time >> 2.33 020/030 15 min 15 sec >> 2.33 040 15 min 00 sec > >I give in - you must be correct.... It's a pity though - I wouldn't have minded being wrong if it had shown Real could go quicker! BTW, Real40 v2.34 is no quicker either, although they didn't say it would be. At least it's no slower! Regards, David Oxley, Logica UK Ltd. @endnode @node item364 From flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se Wed Jun 16 13:19:41 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 11:19:41 +0200 From: Jonas Flygare To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: version 2.34 Any chance of an internet reachable copy?? Also, how the !!!!! do I set the screenmode of the render screen and the default work screen to take advantage of my new nifty monitor? (I've asked this already, but either it went to the big bitbucket on /dev/null, or it`s in the queue on the listserv..) @endnode @node item365 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Jun 17 04:32:28 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: Missing Mail To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 20:32:28 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9306081933.AA00eq8@amipb.gna.org> from "Philippe Berard" at Jun 10, 93 03:30:33 pm > > Hello John (John Shiali). On Jun 7, you have written : > > > There seems to be mail missing from here - I am seing replies to > > original messages that I haven't seen, and people saying that they > > haven't seen my posts - is anyone else having problems? > > Yes, I've had a big routing problem with something which added > "Reply-To: uniwa.uwa.edu.au", and got many bounces on that last > site. Maybe someone is trying to kill us ? ;-) The uniwa problem was becuase I attempted to RCPT mail in larger batches to that machine so as to lessen the load on the link. This has been stopped due to numerous problems that this caused. > Now, I always check if the return address is REALly > real3D@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au Wow.... > Regards, > -- Philippe -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item366 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Jun 17 04:53:56 1993 From: Brendan Langoulant Subject: Re: maillist readme and admin address To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 20:53:56 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9306101326.AA003nv@thought.demon.co.uk> from "Dino Fancellu" at Jun 10, 93 09:12:26 pm > > Paul said, > > > Could any kind sould please mail me the initial mailing on the list, > > as I have lost it somewhere.. Also I would like my address changed, > > but get no reaction from what I believe is theadmin address, so it > > might be wrong.. Could anyone pleas eget me the correct admin address? > > I want my address for this list changed as well to dino@thought.demon.co.uk, > I have sent mail to Brendan but to no effect, help. Its now being bounced > from work up to me, a bit of a waste of time. Is Brendan on holiday > or just snowed under? Snowed under!!!! HA!!!! Only 347 mail items in 3 days.... Surely thats not a problem... ;-( Please... If you want to UNSUBSCRIBE from the list send mail to listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au with some body text like unsubscribe real3d This will unsubscribe you from the list... To change your address. Please unsbuscribe and subscribe again... This may solve at least part of my mail bandwidth. > > Dino. BTW. Dino and Paul : Your mail problems should be fixed now so dont listen to that advice. -- Brendan Langoulant brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au @endnode @node item367 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Wed Jun 16 05:46:33 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 10:46:33 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: dctv & anims Hi.... Still have that problem of real not displaying the dctv picture correctly.... (it shows up on the monitor and does NOT show up on the tv monitor) also.. When I open up an @{"animation" link r3d2a} window, it comes up in the wrong resolution...only 1/2 the screen is accessible while the other half is off the right side. The only way I have been able to fix this is to open another screen at the default screen resolution and then run the anim window from there....(which is OK) but is there away for it to just open in the right resolution without having to use an extra environment window...? info: I am using an amiga 4000 '040, 19 megs of ram, c= 1960 monitor, dctv, and I am running in multiscan productivity on both the workbench and real-startup screen. Note: I am not using any of the 4000's screen promotion (double_ntsc) stuff because dctv will not work at all with them. version: 2.34 '40 I really hope the makers of this program (I know they/you are busy) could respond to this and let me know if they are aware/fixin the dctv bug for the 4000. Thanks.... Ps. How much will they/you be charging the owners of amiga real v2 for a version of windows version??? will there be a discount. and for any of you multi-platform guys out there....which environment would be faster for real.... I have the 4000 and also a 486-DX 50. (I know you will be able to do both at the same time with their linking program....but which system would be faster at rendering?) Thanks, Tony Boutwell Computer Graphics Major Engineering Research Complex, MSU @endnode @node item368 From mcdonoug@dmpe.csiro.au Fri Jun 18 01:33:29 1993 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 15:33:29 +1000 From: Graeme Mc Donough To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Question?? Is there an @{"Imagine" link imagine} user Group as well as this real-3d group?? @endnode @node item369 From GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Thu Jun 17 02:16:35 1993 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 07:16:35 -0500 (CDT) From: GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: REMOVE To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au X-Envelope-To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au REMOVE @endnode @node item370 From collett@agora.rain.com Thu Jun 17 16:52:00 1993 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 23:52 PDT From: collett@agora.rain.com (Ray Collett) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Materials in R3D2 > >I have used the Essence package by Steve Worley (for @{"Imagine" link imagine}) and >I'm wondering if he plans to port some of his work to R3D2. Does >anyone have materials that they would like to post. One place >they could post them too would be the R3D BBS in Ontario, Canada. >The manual explains the materials fairly well, but I think more >examples would have been nice. I've tried using Marble, mirror >and wood with varying success. My guess is that I'm not providing >the right parameters. For example, the wood floor I created >didn't look anywhere near as nice as the one in the bowling alley. >The Canadian support BBS currently doesn't have any materials for >R3D2 (correct me if I'm wrong). Thanks and happy rendering. > > >Shayne White > >swhitenn@reach.com > > Is there an FTP site that can be used for this? It's expensive to stay active on longdistance BBS's. If some of you do post to this BBS, could someone mirror the posts to an FTP site? thanks, collett@agora.rain.com @endnode @node item371 From boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl Sat Jun 19 12:30:05 1993 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:57:40 MET From: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl (Paul Kolenbrander) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Question?? Hello Graeme Mc Donough,On 17 JUN 1993 13:33:48 you said regarding Question??: > Is there an @{"Imagine" link imagine} user Group as well as this real-3d group?? Sure. :-) Sending a message to @{"Imagine" link imagine}-Request@email.sp.paramax.com should get you subscribed. CYa, Paul -- -Drink wet cement: Get Stoned. -- Paul Kolenbrander \ InterNet: boinger@myamy.hacktic.nl Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:284/112.1 Paul Kolenbrander NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Voice: +31-40-415752 | Timezone:GMT+1 | Fax: +31-40-426446 @endnode @node item372 From wisdom!dweyr!sauron@fdurt1.fdu.edu Fri Jun 18 09:53:44 1993 id AA005ow; Fri, 18 Jun 93 14:53:44 EST Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 14:53:44 EST Reply-To: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org From: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org (Ronald A Stanions) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Bugs in 2.34, & questions (I've already sent a copy of this message to real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl.) system: A1200, 68030/68882 & 50Mhz, 8 meg fastram, 2 meg chip. OS: WB3.0, kickstart v39.106, wb v39.29 Bugs I've found in V2.34 so far: 1) If you try to create anything, say, a cube for instance, and you hit I to zoom in before creating the object, the titlebar correctly shows: C:Pos&Zoom In N:Cube but the Pos&Zoom in is ignored, and instead goes right to the cube creation 2) if you have a view window selected, and then use the pulldown or icons to click on a creation tool, it doesn't appear in the titlebar until you start drawing the object. 3) a) create three or more objects at the same level. b) select the top two (or any two except the bottom two). c) swap them. it works fine. d) swap them again. the second one goes to the bottom of the object list. 4) a) create four or more objects at the same level. b) OR any two. this creates a level and puts them in it. this works fine. b) OR any other two. this creates a level INSIDE the level just created, instead of at the current level. questions: The documentation says that the libcalls functions are not available in the hobbyist version. Why not? I would have liked to try my hand at creating a library of texture handlers. Textures like POV uses, mathematical textures. Will these ever be available? either as a library (which would require the libcalls functions) or by some other means? Ron Stanions -- DragonSoft Development sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org The Dragon's Weyr BBS -- Livingston, NJ sauron@wisdom.bubble.org @endnode @node item373 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Fri Jun 18 18:51:29 1993 Return-Path: From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 01:51:29 PDT Ron Stanions, > are not available in the hobbyist version. Huh? What's the "hobbyist" version? I thought this was a professional product. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item374 From wisdom!dweyr!sauron@fdurt1.fdu.edu Sat Jun 19 04:35:27 1993 id AA005p7; Sat, 19 Jun 93 09:35:27 EST Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 09:35:27 EST In-Reply-To: <9306190151.1.16052@cup.portal.com> (from cup.portal.com!CarmenR) (at Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:45:08 +0800) Reply-To: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org From: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org (Ronald A Stanions) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions Hi CarmenR (CarmenR), in <9306190151.1.16052@cup.portal.com> on Jun 19 you wrote: > Ron Stanions, > > > are not available in the hobbyist version. > > Huh? What's the "hobbyist" version? I thought this was a professional > product. > > CarmenR - Crazed Artist > CarmenR@cup.portal.com > Likewise, I assure you. As far as I can tell there are no seperate versions of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }, so it may be just a badly worded phrase, but if you look in the online AmigaGuide help system, under the topic "Errors in the manual", the very last entry reads: (In @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2.30 through 2.34 at least) --------------- Reference 3.66: Error LIB_ words are not implemented in the consumer version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2 but are described in the manual. --------------- Now, I'm not sure how to take that, but it seems to me by removing these functions you remove a very powerful means of expanding the functionality of the program. Ron Stanions -- DragonSoft Development sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org The Dragon's Weyr BBS -- Livingston, NJ sauron@wisdom.bubble.org @endnode @node item375 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 19 18:48:14 1993 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 18:48:14 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306190151.1.16052@cup.portal.com> (from CarmenR@cup.portal.com) (at Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:43:41 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions Hi CarmenR (CarmenR), on Jun 19 you wrote: > Ron Stanions, > > > are not available in the hobbyist version. > > Huh? What's the "hobbyist" version? I thought this was a professional > product. I have heard rumours of a superprofessional version in the "couple of grand" area next year. probably aimed at the likes of SGI's/suns John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item376 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 19 18:48:50 1993 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 18:48:50 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306191435.AA005p6@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.ORG> (from Ronald A Stanions ) (at Sun, 20 Jun 1993 00:47:27 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions Hi Ronald (Ronald A Stanions), on Jun 20 you wrote: > --------------- > Reference 3.66: > > Error > LIB_ words are not implemented in the consumer version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2 > but are described in the manual. > --------------- > > Now, I'm not sure how to take that, but it seems to me by removing these > functions you remove a very powerful means of expanding the functionality of the > program. I agree, if it means what it appears to... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item377 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sat Jun 19 09:44:16 1993 id AA08624; Sat, 19 Jun 93 16:44:20 -0700 From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Bugs in 2.34, & questions Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 16:44:16 PDT Ron Stanions, > LIB_ words are not implemented in the consumer version of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2... Geez, I'm feeling better and better about this product every passing moment. CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item378 From CarmenR@cup.portal.com Sat Jun 19 09:50:28 1993 id AA08972; Sat, 19 Jun 93 16:50:33 -0700 From: CarmenR@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Motion Blues Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 16:50:28 PDT Philippe, Thanks for your reply and for taking all that time to UUENCODE something for me. Unfortunately, the UUENCODEd file would not decode. It kept telling me no "END" is there or something like that.. Anyhow, I tried as you suggested.. I added the Motion blur to the LEVEL containing the object I wanted blurry, and used a sample of 1,2 & 3 [I tried it several times], and an anti-aliasing value of 3. Still no dice. Or rather, no burry dice. Actually, I'm trying to add this to the SPACE project that comes with Real. What am I missing or forgetting? CarmenR - Crazed Artist CarmenR@cup.portal.com @endnode @node item379 From ozturkc%trboun@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR Mon Jun 21 12:47:52 1993 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 16:47:52 EDT From: CAN OZTURK Reply-To: ozturkc@TRBOUN.BITNET To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: ozturkc@TRBOUN.BITNET Subject: subscribe SUBSCRIBE @endnode @node item380 From GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Mon Jun 21 14:38:39 1993 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 19:38:39 -0500 (CDT) From: GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: remove To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au X-Envelope-To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au REMOVE @endnode @node item381 From wdmcclen@infonode.ingr.com Tue Jun 22 06:08:56 1993 From: wdmcclen@infonode.ingr.com (William D McClendon) Subject: remove To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 11:08:56 CDT REMOVE @endnode @node item382 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 22 13:05:28 1993 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 13:05:28 GMT Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali Subject: external screens I thought this message might be of general use to everyone having problems with their configs.... Hello there John, on 18 Jun 93 you wrote: JS> 2.34 *still* doesn't seem to save the external screen settings as part JS> of the startup config (it's probably part of the project) - like I'm JS> going to want loads of different external libraries for different JS> projects? (of course I'd have to choose between my DCTV, OpalVision, JS> Retina, Merlin, etc like everyone does each time). Maybe I could just JS> learn to love typing it in for the millionth time.... Er, sorry John, I lied in my earlier msg. I don't have an external device and it just occurred to me to try it with the DCTV lib. Anyway, I can now give you the solution... Boot a text editor and type the following line 0 7 0 MENU now save it as "r3d2:macros/ext_screen" now open the file "s:rpl-startup" in your text editor and add the line below after the line "r3d2:rpl/sys/editor.rpl" LOAD "r3d2:macros/ext_screen" LOAD (keep the quotes and caps the same as I have typed them) As you've probably guessed this calls a macro on startup whose sole task is to perform menu function 0 7 0 - open external screen! Sorry for misleading you earlier but hopefully you'll get both msgs in one hit.... Talk soon, Andy John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node item383 From silvera@dsi.unimi.it Wed Jun 23 12:32:13 1993 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 10:32:13 +0200 From: paolo silvera Apparently-To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au REMOVE @endnode @node item384 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 24 10:29:02 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 19:13:10 MET In-Reply-To: <9306101333.AA003o0@thought.demon.co.uk> (from Dino Fancellu ) (at Thu, 10 Jun 1993 05:18:08 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: complaints Hello Dino (Dino Fancellu). On Jun 10, you have written : > Hi Esa, No, it's me here ! ;-) > Vesa has got an account on the Canadian @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } support board. Does this BBS have a FidoNet or (better) an UseNet address ? > As Paul said a good place to make sure that Vesa gets stuff is > real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl But where should we post suggestions ? I've a lot of them and a friend of mine, a scientific working on volumetric textures (like fur, textile, rust, etc...) has plenty of them, too ! ;-) Vesa, if you hear this voice that make your spirit vibe, could you please say a little 'hello' to the list ? :^) Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item385 From amipb@amipb.gna.org Thu Jun 24 10:30:07 1993 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 19:17:35 MET In-Reply-To: <9306102135.AA00522@flash.cranel.com> (from watters ) (at Thu, 10 Jun 1993 13:39:00 -0800) From: amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) Hello watters (David R. Watters). On Jun 10, you have written : > Believe me... I don't care if you get the drive here or not... the money > doesn't go into my pocket... although I would enjoy getting to talk to a lot > of Amiga people that need help instead of a day full of Unix dweebs. :) Well, you're lucky, here it's PC dweebs :-( > While we are at it... if you need any large hard disks, MagnetoOptical drives, > or tape (4mm DDS/DAT, 8mm, etc.) give Cranel a call because you will get > some decent pricing from a distributor and I will get to talk to a lot more > of you! We also sell multi-Terabyte optical systems if you are rendering > a lot! :) Which kind of drives ? IDE, SCSI and/or SCSI-II ? Exabytes ? Regards, -- Philippe .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Philippe Berard (French Amiga User) | UseNet : amipb@amipb.gna.org | | "They hold a cup of wisdom, | -> Please don't send mails | | But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). | >50 Ko ! | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' @endnode @node item386 From seanw@codex.com.au Fri Jun 25 01:21:38 1993 From: Sean Woodhouse Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 15:21:38 +1000 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Read3D FTP site?? Hi everyone, Is there an FTP sit for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } updates FAQ's and related files?? I would like to know since I plan on buying it soon and I'd like to have immediate access to updates. On a similar note, could anyone tell me the most recent version of R3D that's being shipped. Thanks Sean --------------------------------------------------------- Sean Woodhouse Software Engineer Xedoc Software Development Pty Ltd, Melbourne AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 3 696 2490 Facimile: +61 3 696 6757 Internet : seanw@xedoc.com.au Street: 222 Park St, South Melbourne, VIC 3205 AUSTRALIA Postal: PO Box 293, Albert Park, VIC 3206 AUSTRALIA --------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item387 From GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Wed Jun 23 19:21:41 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 00:21:41 -0500 (CDT) From: GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au UNREGISTER @endnode @node item388 From garizmen@nermal.santarosa.edu Thu Jun 24 06:35:46 1993 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 22:35:46 +0800 (PST) From: Gustavo Arizmendi Subject: Re: complaints To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <9306161813.AA00ezr@amipb.gna.org> What is going on here? Has everybody sold their software of @{" Real3D " link r3d2b }? How come nobody is posting? Gustavo Arizmendi(garizmen@nermal.santarosa.edu) @endnode @node item389 From GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Wed Jun 23 19:37:27 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 00:37:27 -0500 (CDT) From: GRINNEJ3331@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au HHHEEELLLPPP!!! Get me off this list please!!! I am desperate . @endnode @node item390 From wisdom!dweyr!sauron@fdurt1.fdu.edu Thu Jun 24 02:14:13 1993 id AA005pr; Thu, 24 Jun 93 07:14:13 EST Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 07:14:13 EST In-Reply-To: <199306240521.AA00776@codex.codex.com.au> (from Sean Woodhouse ) (at Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:22:07 +0800) Reply-To: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org From: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org (Ronald A Stanions) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? Hi Sean (Sean Woodhouse), in <199306240521.AA00776@codex.codex.com.au> on Jun 24 you wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Is there an FTP sit for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } updates FAQ's and related files?? I would like to know since > I plan on buying it soon and I'd like to have immediate access to updates. On a similar > note, could anyone tell me the most recent version of R3D that's being shipped. > > Thanks > > Sean > The most recent version I've been made aware of is 2.34. I think it was put up on the Canadian BBS about a week ago. I'd like to know about any FTP sites myself. I'd almost be willing to be a BMS/BBS site, but my hard drive space is at a minimum and I couldn't guarantee more than about 40 meg availability at any one time. Ron Stanions -- DragonSoft Development sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org The Dragon's Weyr BBS -- Livingston, NJ sauron@wisdom.bubble.org @endnode @node item391 From watters@cranel.com Thu Jun 24 04:47:33 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 08:47:33 EDT From: watters To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: IDE drive for DPS PAR (was Re: IDE vs. SCSI) > > While we are at it... if you need any large hard disks, MagnetoOptical drives, > > or tape (4mm DDS/DAT, 8mm, etc.) give Cranel a call because you will get > > some decent pricing from a distributor and I will get to talk to a lot more > > of you! We also sell multi-Terabyte optical systems if you are rendering > > a lot! :) > > Which kind of drives ? IDE, SCSI and/or SCSI-II ? Exabytes ? YES YES YES YES A few people have taken advantage of the deal I arranged for the members of the Amiga mailing list. I want to make sure that everyone has gotten an opportunity to know about it and express any interest. The only drive to have been qualified on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder so far has been the Seagate 3600A. The price on the Seagate 3600A for members of Amiga related mailing lists is $750 + shipping + tax if applicable. This is about $40 under some of the cheapest prices found by most people. If you haven't gotten a chance to check out the DPS PAR, I would strongly suggest it. I used it yesterday and it looks great! Even video people (i.e. non computer people) are impressed with the possibilities with it. If you are interested you should get in touch with me through Email at: watters@cranel.com _ ___ David ~ |_|,--' |@,__ Watters ~ ( )-_______-()`- -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 @endnode @node item392 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Thu Jun 24 05:46:21 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:46:21 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? Hi... I am selling my @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2.34 if anyone is interested? I paid 400 for it and I am willing to sell for about 300 or best offer. email me at trb3@ra.msstate.edu @endnode @node item393 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Thu Jun 24 23:53:05 1993 for mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 12:16:12 CET In-Reply-To: <9306160853.AA0060h@heights.demon.co.uk> (from John Shiali ) (at Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:14:58 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real Wishlist Hi John (John Shiali), in <9306160853.AA0060h@heights.demon.co.uk> on Jun 16 you wrote: > Does anyone know the answers to these questions or if there are ways > of doing this that haven't been found - this was put together by quite > a few people.... We forwarded the message to Realsoft an these are the replies: > 1) Is the DOF related to the focal length? The manual states the DOF scale > 'controls how the Absolute Spatial Distance of an object from the Aim-point > affects the focus' But how does it control it? DOF is related to the focal length as well as shutter hole size. Unfortunately the two numbers which are used to control this feature are based on our internal algorithms and I have not produced any conversion tables yet. > 2) How can the user determine the order in which vectors are placed on the > stack? If you SHIFT-DRAG around a sphere all of its points are placed on the > stack but how can I tell in which order? Does the order remained the same > regardless of which axis was selected when the drag was performed? When Shift-dragging multiple points to stack, the order cannot be controlled; if this is necessary, drag the points one by one. Dragging direction does not affect the order. > 3) The measuring window. What does the 'N' gadget do and under what > circumstances? How does it define the depth of an object being created? Why > does the measuring window close when you close an environment, or refuse to > open on any screen but the first that was opened? Is it possible to have > absolute and relative coordinates active at the same time? Why don't the > settings defined in the measuring window affect the view window coordinates? - gadget of measuring window defines: - Primitive depth in creation functions (e.g. depth of a cube) - Rotation angle in rotation function. > 4) Joining primatives, why will it never join more than two meshes? Can it be > made to do so in the order they were extend selected? Join primitives: it does not join meshes at all. Concatenate can be used for that purpose, and it accepts multiple parameters. > 5) When pasting objects into a select window why can't you insert it above > the currently selected object? At the moment you have to do two cut and > pastes to achieve this. Maybe a separate function might be ok, but normally it is difficult to remember to select the correct pasting position. We tried it, and it seemed to be troublesome solution. > 6) Collision detection. I seem to have discovered a bug related to objects > colliding. If you 'throw' a sphere at the corner of a cube the cube will only > start to spin in one axis. If you hit the top left then it will spin around > the x axis, hit the side it will spin around the y, but never both. Why? Is > it a limitation of the @{"animation" link r3d2a} system? I tried the suggestions passed on > via the Activa Support BBS but it didn't improve the situation at all. I have > got it down to a fine art now and moving the sphere one pixel left or right > alters how the cube spins as a result. There is no grey area here, it does > one or the other, never both. Yes, collsion spins have currently limitations, which are related to internal coordsys of each object. By defining thej 'direction' property for an object its spinning can at least be controlled. > 7) The obscure and add wire functions from V1.4 were very useful. Is it > possible to add a similar facility to V2? V.1.4 obscure and add wire functions can be now implemented using hierarchical combinations of invisible objects and curves, which are used just for visualization purposes. > 8) Is it possible to add some kind of warning that would appear when you go > to render that lists incorrect boolean attributes in the hierarchy. Chris > Perigo had all sorts of problems with objects in a scene 'disappearing' with > no obvious cause. He finally, after two days of looking at it, traced the > problem to one primative being inverted when it shouldn't have. The object > was used in an AND NOT and was later copied to be used elsewhere in the > scene. Select windows give no indication of whether objects are inverted or > not and therefore the user has to manually check each object to find out > which ones are. There is no way we can remember which ones are which on a > complex scene. Along with a warning is it possible to append a flag to > inverted objects in a similar way to textures so they stand out in the select > window. Adding a sign for 'Invert' property in the select window is a very good idea, and will be implemented asap. > 9) Can we have the boolean DIVIDE as used in V1.4 back please, I found this > one of the most useful operations. You can perform the same operations with > just AND or AND NOT but you have to do it twice. Divide: Okay, we'll add it back. > 10) Is it possible to have a pause button on the rendering status window? > This would enable you to pause a render should you need the CPU time for some > other task. Pause button for rendering busy requester: nice idea ! > 11) What is C_TOROID? It is in the RPL VLIST but it is not documented. C_toroid: not fully implemented yet as a separate primitive. > 12) Is there any way to lock a view window to a camera so that when you alter > the cameras position the view automatically gets updated. At present you have > to select the window and select View > Camera > Camera - View or W each > time you move it. Automatic locking is not supported. Remember that in 1.4, you had to press in wireframe mode too, it did not happen automatically. Maybe a useful extra feature, anyway. > 13) Savable fractal tree and landscape configs. Fractal configs should indeed be savable and they will be. > 14) Freeform rotation no longer asks for a angle of rotation and always does > 360 degrees. Can a requestor be added please. Yes, less tan 360 degree freeform rotation should be supported, too. Included in the 'list'. > 15) Cannot cancel a render during optimization, this can cause very long > delays if you are working on a complex scene. Yes, cancelling during render optimizations is not interactive enough now. > 16) Is it possible to close Workbench whilst running Real? This would enable > users to have more chip ram available for a greater variety of rendering > screens. It can also be annoying when cycling through screens having WB > there. No Close WBench option available now. Maybe there is a separate utility which does the job. > 17) Cylinder mapping - The texture always gets put on back to front meaning > you have to flip it in Dpaint before using it. This means having a copy of > the brush if you intend to use it for parallel mapping as well. Do not flip the image, flip the mapping primitive (modify/linear/mirror). > 18) Real keeps the textures in ram after it uses them once. This ram should > be given back to the sytem once the render has finished. If you are using > several 24bit textures you may not have enough ram available to run say Art > Department to edit one of the textures and will have to reboot in order to do > it. The other side effect is that if you change an iff texture in Dpaint or > ADPro Real doesn't use the changed version in future renders unless you go > and change the name in the material, apply it, start a render, abort it, > change it back again... Real should load the textures in every time you > render. Texture cache: Try proofrendering (e.g. when editing materials) a scene with several 24 bit textures, flushing the texture cache every time. The texture loading time may be longer than rendering time.... There is a function (Extras/Free Images) for emptying the cache when you want to run ADPro, you do not have to reboot. > 19) If you hold down and + on the numeric pad instead of zooming in > the screen flashes and the HD is accessed. This does not happen if you use > ' =' to zoom in. While I was trying to recreate this report I > discovered that ' =' produces the same flashing and files being opened. Hardware feature. > 20) Soft shadows don't have any affect on bumpmaps. The bump mapped pattern > disappears along a straight line regardless of how high the light sampling is > set in the render settings. OK - bump map soft shadows may require finetuning. Thanks, I'll check it. > 21) Out of focus objects and soft shadows aren't reflected as blured, they > always appear sharp. Is this a limitation of the program? This also occurs > when you view a out of focus object through a sharp 'glass' object but I > guess this is strongly related to relfections. Yes. This is a simplification of 'reality' in the renderer, mainly because of speed reasons. > 22) Another missing function from v1.4 I'm afraid. You can no longer use > curves as definitions for compound objects other than in freeform creation > where they are essential. V1.4 would let you use them for polyhedrons, > lathe1, tube tools, etc. This was extremely useful and most of these tools > were never used without this ability. V2 expects you to get it right first > time, 1.4 would let you play with the definition to your hearts content. 'Push selected object to stack' and 'Pull all points from stack' will be added to give similar functionality as in 1.4 '*' key. > 23) Autofocus is somewhat unpredictable. It will often place the selected > object in one corner of the screen. Autofocus has been already improved (v.2.34). Some primitives may have their COG in a corner for certain reasons, and this may result in slightly peculiar centering. > 24) If you make a open line with just a start and end position and then remap > it to 8 points it will end up with a loop stretching out of the middle. This > suggests there is a bug with remapping freeforms. It also prevents an easy > way of making a straight line with more than two points. Remapping bug is now fixed. > 25) Regular cut polymid will not let me define the size of the other end on > my machine but works correctly on Chris Perigos'. I have an A1500 with a > Fusion Forty 28mhz 68040 with 8mb of 32bit fast ram and 1mb of chip. He has > an A1500 with a GVP G-Force 030-40 card with the same ram as myself. I have > tried both the 040 and 020/030 versions of Real but neither let me perform > the operation. Other cut primatives work correctly. Chris says the tab key > will not let him create a centered second end on the regular cut polymid. It > places the cursor in the centre but then sizes the second end from a > different offset position. On my machine the second end stays as a point and > is just moved between the centre and a position NW of the it in the Z axis > and between centre and W when created in the X and Y. I have cut my > startup-sequence and user-startup down to everything that is absolutely > necessary which is just assigns and mounting a second hard drive. This makes > no difference whatsoever. This bug will be fixed, too. > 26) Certain input windows will not accept the return key as okay and you > either have to press 'O' or click on the 'OK' gadget to enter the number. > This is un-necessary and very annoying. Numeric IO windows have a built-in calculator, and evaluates the result. > 27) The small '+' cursor needs to be updated in every view window every time > you click in one. At present it only updates in the currently selected > window. This slows down the creation process. OK - I agree. > John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk > FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 > Regards, Vesa Meskanen Realsoft -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 It's time to get REAL @endnode @node item394 From dino@thought.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 24 23:06:47 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 23:06:47 GMT Reply-To: dino@thought.demon.co.uk From: Dino Fancellu To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: complaints Hi Philippe, > Hello Dino (Dino Fancellu). On Jun 10, you have written : > > > > Vesa has got an account on the Canadian @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } support board. > > Does this BBS have a FidoNet or (better) an UseNet address ? > I don't think so. Do others agree? Its phone number is 519 436 0140. > > As Paul said a good place to make sure that Vesa gets stuff is > > real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl > > But where should we post suggestions ? I've a lot of them and a friend > of mine, a scientific working on volumetric textures (like fur, textile, > rust, etc...) has plenty of them, too ! ;-) > Unfortunately this question seems to have been already posed to Paul and he did not seem to answer. At the moment us UK guys tend to send it via our fido links to Andy Jones, the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } UK fidonet moderator. However John often posts stuff between the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } fido echo and internet, so he may do the same for you if you ask, or even if you don't. Dino. {---------------><-----------------><--------------} { } { Hail Discordia! Hail Amiga! Undercover Must Die! } { } {---------------><-----------------><--------------} @endnode @node item395 From Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Fri Jun 25 02:52:38 1993 From: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 00:52:38 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199306241546.AA18150@Ra.MsState.Edu> from "Tony R. Boutwell" at Jun 24, 93 11:41:05 pm Reply-To: Peter.Sjostrom@ludd.luth.se I'll give you 300 USD if you pay shiping to Stockholm, Sweden. I can pay directly to your bank account. /Peter @endnode @node item396 From wisdom!dweyr!sauron@fdurt1.fdu.edu Thu Jun 24 12:17:43 1993 id AA005pz; Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:17:43 EST Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:17:43 EST In-Reply-To: <9306241116.AA00a6l@motship.hacktic.nl> (from motship.hacktic.nl!activa (Paul van der Heu)) (at Fri, 25 Jun 1993 00:01:44 +0800) Reply-To: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org From: sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org (Ronald A Stanions) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real Wishlist Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), in <9306241116.AA00a6l@motship.hacktic.nl> on Jun 25 you wrote: > Hi John (John Shiali), in <9306160853.AA0060h@heights.demon.co.uk> on Jun 16 you wrote: > > > Does anyone know the answers to these questions or if there are ways > > of doing this that haven't been found - this was put together by quite > > a few people.... > > We forwarded the message to Realsoft an these are the replies: > ... stuff deleted > > 5) When pasting objects into a select window why can't you insert it above > > the currently selected object? At the moment you have to do two cut and > > pastes to achieve this. > > Maybe a separate function might be ok, but normally it is difficult > to remember to select the correct pasting position. We tried it, and > it seemed to be troublesome solution. I should think this one would be pretty simple to make understood. If you have one object selected at the current level, paste above that object. If you have more than one selected, either fail, paste above the first selected object, or paste to the very bottom of the list, as it does now. All three of these methods are entirely acceptable. also, if no objects are selected, always paste to the bottom of the list. I'd very much like to see this ability added too. NEVER paste to any level other than the one shown in the most recently selected select window. (There is an occasional bug that I can't reproduce which has caused pasting to occur at a deeper level in more than one case on me.) > > 10) Is it possible to have a pause button on the rendering status window? > > This would enable you to pause a render should you need the CPU time for some > > other task. > > Pause button for rendering busy requester: nice idea ! I would also like to see a task priority setting for each render window as well. This is one thing I keep forgetting to mention! I have one window that I use for rendering whatever I'm doing now, and I have to kick it to a lower priority by hand using Xoper every time I want to work without being slowed down. If you put a pause requestor button, it would also be a great boon if you put a PRI requestor up at the same time, to allow us to kick different windows to higher or lower priorities on desire, without having to resort to a utility like Xoper. ...And what ever happened to the ability to 'flash' an object? I would really love to get that ability back! Ron Stanions -- DragonSoft Development sauron@dweyr.wisdom.bubble.org The Dragon's Weyr BBS -- Livingston, NJ sauron@wisdom.bubble.org @endnode @node item397 From trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu Thu Jun 24 15:03:21 1993 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 20:03:21 -0500 From: "Tony R. Boutwell" To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? that sounds fair.....if you are serious, than I am! trb3@ra.msstate.edu @endnode @node item398 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Fri Jun 25 12:07:59 1993 for mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 14:42:11 CET In-Reply-To: <9306161813.AA00ezr@amipb.gna.org> (from amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard)) (at Thu, 24 Jun 1993 12:40:35 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: complaints Hi Philippe (Philippe Berard), in <9306161813.AA00ezr@amipb.gna.org> on Jun 24 you wrote: > > As Paul said a good place to make sure that Vesa gets stuff is > > real-bugs@motship.hacktic.nl > > But where should we post suggestions ? I've a lot of them and a friend > of mine, a scientific working on volumetric textures (like fur, textile, > rust, etc...) has plenty of them, too ! ;-) Suggestions can be sent to activa@motship.hacktic.nl Also the mailinglist is monitored and suggestions which appear there are forwarded to Realsoft. -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 It's time to get REAL @endnode @node item399 From activa@motship.hacktic.nl Fri Jun 25 12:08:46 1993 for mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au!real3d Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 14:40:23 CET In-Reply-To: <199306240521.AA00776@codex.codex.com.au> (from Sean Woodhouse ) (at Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:17:57 +0800) Reply-To: activa@motship.hacktic.nl From: activa@motship.hacktic.nl (Paul van der Heu) To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? Hi Sean (Sean Woodhouse), in <199306240521.AA00776@codex.codex.com.au> on Jun 24 you wrote: > Is there an FTP sit for @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } updates FAQ's and related files?? I would like to know since > I plan on buying it soon and I'd like to have immediate access to updates. On a similar > note, could anyone tell me the most recent version of R3D that's being shipped. You can obtain updates by either: - downloading them from the support BBS. - requesting them to be sent to you by mail. Activa International can be reached through FIDO on 2:280/207.32@fidonet.org or on usenet through activa@motship.hacktic.nl -- Activa International, Keienbergweg 95, 1101 GE Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone 31 (0)20 6911914, FAX 31 (0)20 6911428, BBS 31 (0)20 6971880 UUCP - activa@motship.hacktic.nl , FIDO 2:280/207.32 It's time to get REAL @endnode @node item400 From seanw@codex.com.au Sat Jun 26 01:06:43 1993 From: Sean Woodhouse Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 15:06:43 +1000 To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Read3D FTP site?? OK, so the answer is that there is no Anonymous FTP site which caters to @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } v2. Surely someone with FTP access could upload Real updates to one of the Aminet sites. I would even volunteer to do it myself as long as I am sent the files as soon as they arrive. Downloading them from the BBS is not an option since I'm in Australia. Sean --------------------------------------------------------- Sean Woodhouse Software Engineer Xedoc Software Development Pty Ltd, Melbourne AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 3 696 2490 Facimile: +61 3 696 6757 Internet : seanw@xedoc.com.au Street: 222 Park St, South Melbourne, VIC 3205 AUSTRALIA Postal: PO Box 293, Albert Park, VIC 3206 AUSTRALIA --------------------------------------------------------- @endnode @node item401 From brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Jun 23 16:30:15 1993 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 09:33:46 BST From: "G.Coulter" To: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: UPgrading to R3D2 by visa in UK? Sender: brendan@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au *-real3d-* Hi Everyone :- I am currently using @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } version 1.41 which I am considering upgrading to version 2. I have a letter from Activa about the upgrade procedure but the letter is not at all clear on what you should do. Can someone tell me how I should go about getting my upgrade? Will I get the latest release? can I pay by visa? and finally how long will it take before I actually get the upgrade? Thanks -Gary- G.Coulter@Daresbury.AC.UK PS What do I do with my 1.4 disks, do I sent then back with the order? Thanks again for any help. @endnode @node item402 From john@heights.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 25 00:08:25 1993 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 00:08:25 GMT In-Reply-To: <9306241116.AA00a6l@motship.hacktic.nl> (from Paul van der Heu ) (at Thu, 24 Jun 1993 23:59:31 +0800) Reply-To: john@heights.demon.co.uk From: John Shiali To: real3d@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Real Wishlist Hi Paul (Paul van der Heu), on Jun 24 you wrote: > > Does anyone know the answers to these questions or if there are ways > > of doing this that haven't been found - this was put together by quite > > a few people.... > > We forwarded the message to Realsoft an these are the replies: Thank you *VERY* much for these replies - I shall forward them to the rest of the guys in the UK echo, and the info will come in very useful. I hope to post some more positive comments and maybe some tutorials and ideas back to usenet in the near future... John .. InterNet - john@heights.demon.co.uk FidoNet - 2:253/510.9 @endnode @node r3d2b The following information was taken directly from the @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V2 brochure I painstakingly typed it, and linked the subjects. (Brendan) @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V.2 is a full features 3D @{"animation" link r3d2a }, @{"modelling" link r3d2m}, and @{"rendering" link r3d2r} program. The first to bring a particle @{"animation" link r3d2a} system to desktop platforms. Breakthrough features, previously only available on highend platforms, are now within your grasp. With @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V.2 you will be able to produce high quality images and animations of three dimensional models with an astounding level of realism. It provides even the most demanding user with an environment in which he or she can breath freely and work without frontiers whether the user is a 3D artist, an industrial designer, or a computer animator. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V.2's collection of innovative features, together with an efficient and user firendly interface provides you with one of the most powerful 3D packages ever available for 3D Desktop Animations and computer graphics. @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } V.2 allows you to easily create seemingly very complex 3D animations. Objects will now have their own 'intelligence' and will react as if they were in the real world. This is the new @{" Real3D " link r3d2b } reality: - Throw a handful of balls down a flight of stairs and watch the balls bouce to the bottom. Gravity, collision detection, the elasticity of the balls are all automatically calculated by the program. - Create a bowling alley, throw the bowling ball, watch how it spins because of the friction with the alley floor, see the pins get knocked by the ball and collide with each other in a way the truely recreates reality. Did you get a strike? - Pour liquid down a curved pip and see how it runs through and out the other end. - Throw a thousand snowflakes into simulated wind and watch them swirl around. Try doing this one manually! - Build a robot are with joints at the shoulder, elbow, wrist, hand, and fingers, pull on one finger and see how the whole are will straighten rotating correctly at the joints. - Create an @{"animation" link r3d2a} of a pot of water gradually coming to a boil on a stove. Watch the bubbles develope at the bottom, grow as they rise to the top and disappear into the air. Watch as more and more bubbles form until the water appears to be truely boiling. - See when glass is dropped how it can automatically detect the floow and explode into a thousand pieces. - Create an object which gradually changes its material from, say wood to marble, then to glass, and finally to shiny gold. Other features : @{" Modelling " link r3d2m } @{" Rendering " link r3d2r } @{" Textures & Materials Mapping " link r3d2t } @{" Animation System " link r3d2a } @endnode @node r3d2m @{ " Modelling " link r3d2m } - Easy to use and user friendly. - User configurable and expandable editor allows the user to build up job specific modelling environments for different type of modelling tasks. - Double buffered windows can be used for animation orientated environments. - Tools window provides the user with an icon based interface to the program. - Multi screen support. - Amiga 4000 optimized. - New Amiga graphics modes supported. - Fully integrated editor and rendering engine allows ray tracing to be used as a primary rendering method simultaneously for all windows. - Zero wait state design takes full advantage of multitasking. Time consuming task like rendering are handled asynchronously allowing the user to execute modelling activities without waiting for the program. - RPL, a fully featured programming language providing the user with total and interactive control over all functions. - Open architecture allows end users and third parties to expand and customize the program using RPL. - Savable macros based on RPL which can be bound to keys and user defined icon. - Two files formats available: binary format based on IFF and ASCII format based on RPL. - Undo with unlimited depth. - User configurable keyboard shortcuts. - Parallel and perspective projectsion available for all view windows. - Measuring system allows the user to define coordinates directly or through mathematical formulas using the keyboard. Meters, centimeters, millimeters, inches, and feet are supported. Normal and polar coordinates can be used with eight different measuring modes. - Unlimited numer of savable grids with user defined colours, line patterns, sizes, position, name, etc. - Existing objects can be used as 'snap to' points. - Vector stack allows vector operations like addition, subtraction, averages, etc... Results can be used as an input for creating and modifying objects. - Hierarchial object construction. - Solid (@{" CSG " link define_csg) modelling - Boolean operations. - Quadric surfaces. - Polygonal surfaces. - B-splines. - Large collections of creation tools based on quadrics such as lathe which creates smoothly curved objects by joining cylinders, cones, ellipsoids, and hyperbolics. - Comprehensive set of freeform surface construction tools including co-planar and orthogonal sweeps (extrusion along a curve), swing, rotation, and cross-sectional building, etc... - Object construction tools for producing 3D objects from 2D bitmaps. - Landscape and tree fractal generators. - All neccessary linear transformations including: move, size, stretch, rotate, mirror, shear, etc. - Nearly one hundred non-linear freeform deformations including deformation through user defined control curves. - Comprehensive set of direct curve and surface manipulation tools through control and knot points includes remapping, automatic surface closing/opening, manipulation through subgroups, conversion between different surface types, etc. - Skeletonal control allows user to manipulate objects through skeletons. - Tags can be used for expanding object and material data structures. - DXF, ProDraw Clip, and Sculpt import. - Real V1.x import. - IFF, Targa, Windows BMP support. - Procedural object creation. - Intelligent thinking object can be created by associating 'brain' with them. These objects can be used as tools for creating new objects. - Textures are represented using primitives providing the user with accurate and intuitive control over size, position, orientation, etc. and allowing the user to manupulate textures like any other object. - Infinite number of rendering boxes allows user to render quickly only those parts of the screen containing critical or interesting objects. - Arexx support. @endnode @node r3d2r @{" Rendering " link r3d2r } - Fast 68020/30 and 68040 optimized versions. - Soft shadows. - Sun-glow atmospheric effects. - Depth of field with fully adjustable strength and scale. - Motion blur applied to the entire scene or individual objects. - Unlimited number of light sources with any colour and brightness. - Fogs fo all kinds. - Blurred reflections and refractions. - 9 level anti-aliasing using adaptive super-sampling. - Perspective and Orthogonal rendering available for all rendering modes. - Transparency and phyically correct refractions. - Support window rendering, IFF-24 bit, Targa 24/32 file, Windows BMP 24 bit, or direct to frame buffer at any resolution. - Alpha channel support. - Background colour, solid or gradient. - Environment colour, solid or gradient. - Animated background images. - Ambient light setting with any colour or brightness. - 16 level 'recursion depth' for raytracing. - Auto-exposure or manual brightness control. - 6 different dithering methods with adjustable strength. - Object specific dithering. - 8 different rendering modes: wire frame, draft, scan line, lampless, shadowless, outline, Phong shaded, and complete ray-trace. - Field rendering. - Optional background anti-aliasing for combining rendered images with genlocks. - Adjustable B-Spline rendering quality. Automatic subdivision control modifies the sub-division level during animations if neccessary. - Automatic B-Spline conversion to Phong shaded surfaces for quick rendering. - Matte objects for combining ray-traced scenes with backgrounds. - Direct support for most frame buffers including: Harlequin, VD2000, DCTV, Targa, OpalVision, IV24, etc. @endnode @node r3d2t @{" Textures and Materials Mapping " link r3d2t } - All IFF, including 24bit, and Targa format files can be used as textures. - Volumetric texture mapping. - B-Spline texture ampping: texture automatically conformas to the surface of the b-spline meshes, if the mesh is altered, the texture alters with the mesh and maintains its conformity. - Bump mapping with total control over bump height and shape, Mathematical and user defined procedural bumps through formulas and RPL procedures. - Environment mapping supports global and object specific maps. - Opacity ampping. - Shadow mapping. - Reflection mapping. - Clip mapping. - Transparency mapping. - Clip mapping. - Transparency mapping. - Brilliancy mapping. - Materials with no shadows. - All mapping can be mixed. - Material and texture properties can be cumulated hierarchially. - Textures can be tiled infinitely or a define number in the x and y directions. - Textures can be flipped either in x or y or both directions in order to create continuous textur appearances. - Colour interpolation for textures can be used in x and y or both directions. - User defineable transparency colour. - Unlimited number of procedural and mathematical textures through user define formulas and rpl procedures. - Non-homogeneous materials whose density can be controlled by build in procedures or user defined formulas and rpl procedures. - Texture mapping methods include: default, parallel, cylinder, sphere, disk and mapping through user defined formula/rpl procedures. - Material attributes like specularity, specularity brightness, brilliancy, transparency, refraction index, turbidity, turbidity saturation, roughness, and effectiveness, can all be freely defined. @endnode @node r3d2a @{" Animation System " link r3d2a } - Particle @{"Animation" link r3d2a} System based on Newtons Laws of Motion which includes all necessary force field allowing realistic simulation of wind, gravity, magnetism, friction, etc. - Behavioural animation where objects can have there own intelligence and react to their living environement making decisions and communicating with other objects. - All objects can be used as particales for particle animation. - New and revolutionary time based animation system based on the object oriented theory. - 24 different techniques for creating animations. - All animation data is a natural part of the object itself allowing the user to save, load, duplicate, etc, animated objects as easilty as the simplest primitive. - Lines, circles, ellipses, b-splines, etc can be used for defining motions, rotations, and other transformations for objects. Mathematical formulas and RPL procedures can also be used. - User defined control curves can be used for non-linear time accurate control over acceleration/deceleration. - Material properties, textures, cameras, and light sources can all be animated like any other object. - Inverse kinematics allows the user to redefine end point for skeletons. For example: pulling on the finger of a pobot hand will cause the whole are to follow with proper bending at the joints. - Collision detection with user defined environment controls. - Skeletonal control supports hierarchial skeletons needed for modelling character animations. - Key framing can be user for object animation of light sources, textures, cameras, and materials. - Hierarchial animation contruction: a fish swims along a path, the path is deformed by gravity caused by the globe which follows a circular route around the sun, etc. - RPL interface tro all animation techniques provides the user with easy and fast way to customize the procedures. - All linear and non-linear transformation and deformations such as size, stretch, bend, etc... can be animated. - Animated background images. - All animation types can be freely mixed with each other. - Frame commands for controlling single frame controllers. - Boolean operations can be animated: drill a hole through an objects with a drill, pull it back and the hole disappears. - Procedural animations. RPL allows the user to create unique animations. - ANIM OPCODE 5 support. @endnode @node r3d2o Archive Sites At present all uploads of new info should go to wuarchive.wustl.edu /amiga/systems/incoming/real3d @endnode @node imagine Another 3D product. Many users of Real3D were users of Imagine. @endnode @node lightwave A competitor 3D product. @endnode @node internet Wonderful world wide computer network. Filled with many strange and interesting individuals. @endnode @node define_csg Constructive Solid Geometry. @endnode @node define_inversekinematics @endnode